Ive been saying this for a long time too. Its just ridiculous that archers stack like this ON OPEN FIELD. If you can find a corner, a hole in a woodline, a tight cliff, thats fine for me, has always been like this and you could try to prevent it by blocking their path there etc…
But 43 arbs on open field on 1 tile. Thats just stupid, I mean no wonder pathfinding bugs out then. As a cavalier there I would have no clue either where and whom to attack.
And the existence of onagers has nothing to do with this behaviour. You cant expect e.g. someone going cavalier to always have an onager everywhere with his army. Thats just stupid.
11 Likes
That’s actually amazing. Cavaliers themselves acted as impassable objects, letting arbalests stack even better than in an actual forest gap.
Obviously, it shouldn’t work like that.
There should be unsqueezable hitbox of each archer that doesn’t allow other units to go on top of it.
7 Likes
Yeah you’re kind of explaining why archers are strong given a very particular scenario in which they are SUPPOSED to win.
The knight line is NOT a counter to archers. Yes, it defeats archers in open field and in small numbers, but archers have strength in numbers whereas knights grow in power linearly.
If you want to actually counter archers you have several options available to you.
- Ignoring them completely while causing havoc in the opponent’s base. It really helps when you have towers and castles protecting your base.
- Making skirmishers. If you let your opponent make +20 archers without even considering a single skirmisher, you’re doing it wrong.
- Siege: onagers, rams, scorpions, BBCs + whatever pile of trash you can throw at it. Just as archers grow in power quadratically, so do they drop in power the same way.
- A melee counter unit if you have one: huskarls, tarkans, malian champs, eagle warriors (especially Inca).
2 Likes
you should check the tech tree again
and i quote
Create Knight (Cost: 60F 75G)
Powerful all-purpose cavalry. Strong vs. infantry and archers.
so yes, the knight line should be a counter to the archer line.
5 Likes
Saying onagers is the solution is defeating the whole point of cav mobility. You can’t say that siege is the solution when talking about cav vs arbs because you can’t always have onagers wherever your cav are nor should you have to invest into siege when cav loose in equal numbers and are the more expensive unit with more hp and damage. Thankfully at my elo 1300 people don’t know how to micro that many arbs onto one tile without the help of a good woodline, none the less, I agree stacking should not be removed but reduced!
4 Likes
Oh it says so in the tech tree so it must be true!
2 Likes
the fact is they clearly are intended to be good vs archers. lets take a look at the numbers.
in the castle age a standard knight has 4 pierce armor and 120 health.
while a crossbow has 7 damage. that means it takes 3 damage a shot, and requires 40 shots to kill.
Paladins take 60 shots to kill from Arbs.
that to me is a huge indicator that archers aren’t supposed to be good vs the knight line.
3 Likes
You can’t compare stats like that. Archers have range which means they get stronger as they mass up.
every unit gets stronger as they mass up.
6 Likes
Yeah i see this and try to do it all the time. I’ve rage quit a good number of times due to it as well. Archer blob stacks all onto one unit in an open field. My cav aimlessly bump and idle while maybe one of them attacks.
Haven’t had an opportunity for this to happen since the patch. It might have fixed the idling but sure aa Heck archers can still do this nonsense
1 Like
This is very counter intuitive. Will have tons of players who don’t intentionally stack asking why their archers are useless and reporting bugs
How dumb would it be to have to explain “so bobby your archers fire fewer shots if you stack them. Yea the game let’s you irrationally stack them but now it also imposes an irrational penalty even if you stack them accidentally”
Like htf would micro move shoot work? The whole time ill be trying to force my guys not to stack so i can maximise shots. No man.
Just prevent them from stacking SO MUCH
There is a bump value between 0 and knights. They can use that. Instead of “my guys must act like gas seeping through any crack to allow my arbs to fluidly move even though this same logic doesn’t apply to knights”
5 Likes
STACKING is the work of the DEVIL himself
STACKING is Lucifer
STACKING is the ‘Evil’ in ‘Devil’.
Stacking shouldn’t be a thing in this game for any unit. Period.
3 Likes
Just because in the video ~55 arbalesters should always win against ~20 cavaliers (stacking or no stacking) doesn’t mean that this topic is irrelevant.
There is lot of other situations you could create where ranged units shouldn’t perform so well against cavalry as they can. Viper, Hera and other pro players already mentioned that…
And before DE you could only select 40 units at a time iirc. So you could never create a 55 units death-ball like now. So anyone that say “It was always like this” is also wrong.
3 Likes
Guys, check those situations with the new pathing and then come back here to discuss if needed.
I don’t think it is as bad as you think it is. You still have scenarios in your head where the cav units are literally not attacking. Those should be gone now
1 Like
One solution would be just that the units get automatically unstacked when you send an order to attack, just as melee have to turn around or units with minimum range have to step back to attack.
It’s not easy to get the units stacked unintentionally, and for these cases the stacked units should just unstack when given an order to attack.
8 Likes
What’s an onager going to do against 40 arbalests that can kill it before it gets close?
You’re not getting game changing results with onagers vs this many arbs until you get like 3 or 4 which then they can just run away from lolol
6 Likes
Onager has 8-9 range, how is it dying before?
1 Like
Ok, serious non-sarcastic input:
Can attack range be anything but an integer?
If it’s possible, (if it’s not possible make it so, Francisco 
) we could simply increase the range of most units that are considered to be melee from 0 to 0.05 and all mounted melee units (except lancers) to 0.1 – S’alright?
S’alright.
2 Likes
Try Rattan Archers and they crazy foot-speed 
