"Weakening" means cutting it directly into useless?

The cost of Chinese entering the dynasty is very high, which is equivalent to the need to double the resources of the era of upgrading, but the positioning of the dynasty unit is very embarrassing.

Zhuge crossbow in the Song Dynasty: the effect of anti heavy armor is still very poor. At the same time, due to the short range, it is almost suppressed by all remote units H & R, not to mention the longbowmen in England. Even ordinary step bowmen can suppress Zhuge crossbow.

Fire spear of the Yuan Dynasty: it was once the most practical imperial unit. Of course, the former fire spear can fight head-on and attack buildings. It is really OP, but “threatening” means cutting it directly into useless?

The fire spear is obviously weakened too much. I mean the characteristics of this unit: the fire spear attack is only weakened by 50% on the surface, but the attack type of fire spear does not belong to gunpowder. In fact, it will calculate the armor. The higher the armor, the lower the AoE of fire spear. According to the player’s calculation, the current fire spear can only cause 16.7% to 28% of the original damage to heavy armor units.

If the purpose of weakening the fire Spear’s damage is to avoid being too OP, why weaken the fire Spear’s attack on villagers and remote units?

The most accurate positioning of fire spear should focus on attacking buildings, remote units and villagers. It is a specialized version of ordinary riders. If you want to distinguish it from ordinary riders, it can be weakened in terms of cost, health and armor.

But now this weakening method will only make the fire spear unable to compete with any unit, and its effect on anti remote units is even worse than that of ordinary riders. What’s the meaning of fire spear?

Grenadier of the Ming Dynasty: the only Dynasty unit with combat effectiveness. The cluster effect is outstanding, but it has little practical significance. Because the cost of the construction premise is too high, it is equivalent to the need to upgrade the era twice. However, China itself is very short of gold in the later stage. Therefore, although this unit is powerful, it has no chance to appear at all.

The cost of Chinese entering the dynasty is very high (buff cannot be superimposed, nor can they enter the dynasty at half price). Therefore, the dynasty units should not be as weak or lack of opportunities as they are now.


you said that now it does not work against heavy, and right after that you said it should be used for raids, not to fight heavy kts.

Sounds that you can not snipe everything with FL now.

imagine what would happens when they fix bombards.


I agree that gold is very hard to come by for China game. Neutral Trade, relics, or SS are a must if you want any kind of army later on, especially if going Ming. Without construction speed, Jiang speed and Fl it would be difficult to secure ANY gold for grenadiers or siege

那老哥你说错了,诸葛弩4的攻击X3,步弓手5的攻击,早期武士3的远防,也就是诸葛打一次3点伤害,步弓一次2点,诸葛升级一攻,打武士就是6的伤害,步弓就算升级一攻也才3点,关键诸葛打无甲单位很疼,,火枪就算现在也是OP的,本来伤害就溢出了,普通骑手花费120资源,就是个骑手,火枪没补丁之前也是花120资源,多了多少BUFF,还是aoe伤害,补丁后 增加了40资源,但是多了这么多buff 也值啊,这还不算灵道减免,相比ABBASID的骆驼骑手240资源,前期你有官员总比abbasid啥都没强吧,前期别贪,我看好多人游戏回放都是为了升级王朝,结果被冲了, 在你有50个枪骑兵的时候,一次攻击1800的伤害,地标的HP是5000,3次攻击一个地标,并且伤害还溢出了400容错率,



Zhuge Crossbow’s attack is indeed higher, but when facing heavy armor, it is only the difference between duck egg stone and egg stone,

As for the fire spear, I agree to reduce its output to heavy armor, but the fire lance is also weak in the face of crossbowmen and economic units, which is too much…

敌人现在需要两次,你觉得秒杀是正常的?所有的部队都不能秒杀敌人,金马冲锋也只能1v1为啥便宜的火枪就必须秒杀对面,abbasid骆驼是克制骑兵毋庸置疑也不能秒杀啊,然后诸葛弩弩 对于前中期打重甲比步弓强,对于轻甲单位那就是屠杀,,但是价格呢?和步弓一样,都是花费80资源,,,,基本就是万金油单位,而且老哥这个网页自带翻译,虽然不准确,但是大家都能看懂 :grinning: :grinning: :grinning:

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对了,新年快乐,虎年大吉, :grinning: :grinning: :grinning: :grinning:




The problem is that their anti Archer effect is not outstanding

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The cost performance of the Ming Dynasty is too low, with extremely high gain and extremely low income. Even so, there are still people clamoring to weaken the Grenadier. All units with Chinese characteristics are not even as powerful as the original general units. Does specialization mean weakening the version for China?

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From the beta version to the present, almost all units and features in China have been weakened, and they have been directly reduced to mediocrity, or even worse than general units

I feel that the current fire spear is really unnecessary compared with riders. It is not as practical as the grassland cavalry of Empire III, but it needs the high start-up cost of the Yuan Dynasty.

You are right on with China. need to be changes

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For Zhuge Nu,
We cannot just discuss the advantages of Chinese without ignoring the cost and premise of achieving them.
Due to the limitation of dual landmarks, it takes more than six minutes and thirty seconds for Chinese to mass-produce the Zhuge Nu.
Even under the supervision of the IO, it takes until the 7th minute to attack the HRE. For HRE, who pursues the ultimate speed, they can start building the landmark of the third era before the 8th minute. Once in the third era, knights and warriors will severely restrain the Zhuge crossbow.
This means that for Chinese, there are only tens of seconds to organize an attack. However, due to the very low movement speed (lower than the foot archers), Zhuge Nuo has almost only one chance to attack.
This makes Zhuge Nu’s play style very low in error tolerance. It can also be seen from the data that the winning rate of Chinese against HRE is the lowest among all civs. It’s 44.4%

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Totally agreed!

As you mentioned, Chuge Nu shall be designed as an early (not that early since you need Song) crossbowman, that also do well on light infantry. Hack, other civ have early knights/MAA, China only gets late (due to the dynasty) trash units…

Fire Lancers now is totally useless, I would rather just go for horseman, due to FL has lower movement speed (even slower than knights can you believe that?), and no piercing armor, horseman now has 2. I think it should be viewed a an hit-and-run unit not hit-and-die unit, and it should also serve as anti-seige unit. Hence, at least, it should has the same stats as a horseman, and we pay more for the extra aoe demage.

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