The Italian composition doesn’t need as much res to get online. You just need bracer + chemistry to start killing mangudai with genoese, by the time they get elite + drill siege the Italians will have FU genoese + siege + hussars.
Vietnamese Imperial Skirms
Aztecs Elite Skirms with Atlatl
Mayans Elite Skirms with Hul’che Javelineers
Lithuanian elite skirms do the same thing but better due to taking less damage per shot.
(Edit: I just tested it, and I was wrong about the Lithuanian elite skirms being better, but they are actually about equivalent. It appears that they are mostly the same, but more resilient against archer units with 7 or more base attack. Though it does have to be acknowledged that if Lithuanian imp skirms are available, those are quite a bit stronger than Vietnamese ones against archers with 7 or more base attack, but any lower than that and Vietnamese are better for obvious reasons.)
The Aztecs miss out on the final armor upgrade, and I have tested the effects of the Lithuanian unique tech vs Dravidian skirms (Lithuanians crush the Mangudai and the Dravidians can’t even win), so I know for myself that some extra PA makes a HUGE difference vs archers with higher attack than normal (like the Mangudai, which has 8 base attack in imperial age). The missing PA is just too massive to make it effective.
Mayan skirms are not very much better than normal FU skirms. An extra damage here and there with no consistency on when it hits is only good vs high PA things like huskarls, siege weapons, TKs, buildings, etc. The Mongols don’t have access to ring archer armor, so Mangudai take 3 damage per hit from elite skirms without bonus damage. With bonus damage though, they deal 9 damage per hit. Considering the Mayan tech, it will occasionally do about 10% more, and since it is occasional and not guaranteed, it is even less than that. Spirit of the Law made a video about this, and Mayan skirms are better in ways other than extra anti-archer.
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HUSKARL SPAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
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Hello. I wanted to ask, why are the Mangudai considered something so special, that they warrant a topic about their counters? I thought they could be countered by units that work against usual Cavaly Archers. The only thing special about Mangudai is their bonus against siege.
High attack with high firing rate, Elite Mangudai in Imperial has very few counters, for a reason are now slower than used to be (previously moved fast as camels).
That added benefit against siege is one of the most practical edges in the game, for both defensive and offensive use. This is on a Cavalry Archer type unit, with the Mongol attack speed bonus. The lack of the final armor does hurt them in theory, but they are damage intensive units, meaning they try to kill the enemy quickly, using their masses and extra damage. This is boosted by a shorter delay than cavalry archers.