What can the Italians do against an army of skirmishers and elite kamayuks?

Honestly, Onagers would probably be my best bet.

Yeah mine too, the problem is that Italians lack both SE and SO, so their onagers are pretty underwhelming.

I really, really disagree. You absolutely should not use Hussars and Arbalests against Kamayakus and Skirmishers. This is in my opinion one of the worst ways to counter such a match up.

Incan Kamayuks and Eagle Warriors are extremely resistant to archer fire, so Arbalests will not do enough damage to them. Hussars will just get mowed down by the Eagles and Kamayuks before they can reach the Skirmishers, which will be busy annihilating the Arbalests.

This is like responding to mass Halbs by making Paladins.

The best way I think to deal with Kamayuks and Skirmishers is Siege (particually Onagers) with infantry to soak up the Kamayuk and Skirmishers.

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They don’t really need to be fully upgraded in order to get the job done. Onagers are good against massed infantry and massed archers. Put some cheap disposable infantry like Pikemen in front and you’ve got a pretty decent way to deal with Incan Kamayuks + Skirmishers.

For most civs that works, but remember that italians also have bad pikes (no halbs).

Still, this is probably the best combo, but I would also use some HC+champs/condos, both because are decent units vs kamayuks, and to prevent and energy transition into EEW.

True and this is why I also think your own skirms are better to start off with. Still, at some point Hussars are really useful, you can snipe siege (which is likely to come to the field when you do hc/skirm), go raid, cut off reinforcements, prevent castles and so on.

Yes, once the UT armor is in, your arbs won’t do as much but in early imp it’s certainly an option to hold the position. You need some sort of army in early imp if you want to transition into hc. Skirms or siege only can be very risky here unless you have a lot of defensive castles.

They also aren’t viable long-term vs kamayuks unless you can use their mobility and distract your opponent somehow. Condos and siege can work, though. But I guess only if you are getting there fast because slingers and siege easily kill that so you’d need bc then.

In the end, both civs have quite a few options to go for and imo it really depends on how both players transition to imp. Each of them has appropriate counters to every unit the other one can do. Escpecially Italians can do a lot of tech switches and in my experience it’s one of the best ways to use the civ. I’d just try to hold the center with hc or siege + whatever complentary units work best in the respective situation and at some point start raiding with Hussars. Once gold runs out Italians should always have the upper hand.

Yes I know, but champs are costly and long to tech into it, one can anticipate it, but if he hasn’t, then condos can be a decent substitute meatshield.

Yes, it depends a bit by what composition either side use, vs slingers Italians have FU skirms, however I meant to use the condos only as a meatshield for HC and siege, which they could do it with pavise.

I mean, one of the challenges of fighting an Inca player is all of their units potentially counter what their opponent is making- they have EEW with 4+6 pierce armor for dealing with any ranged unit and siege, Kamayuks for melee unit fights especially with cavalry, slingers for infantry, good skirms for ranged units, FU arbs and champs if they want different options, and a good siege workshop with Onager, Heavy Scorp, and Siege Ram with siege engineers. It’s a tough matchup for Italians.

I think going pike/onager as italians is not a great bet. That could be countered with straight eagles very easily. Generic Pikemen in Imp are just a bad unit. If you went Hussar/Onager that may work better, but in today’s meta, Arbalest are one of the most powerful units on the field. While Kamayuks benefit from Fabric shields, they only have 0+6 pierce armor which is the same as an FU Cavalier or Hussar, and 20 Arbs can 1-shot a Kamayuk. If you have 30-40 arbs, they’ll kill Kamayuks and slingers pretty well.

Obviously micro comes into play on both sides. It’s hard to have these discussions because it’s not as simple as discussing in a forum “X beats Y” because what actually matters is how many units are on the field, who has more upgrades, who has a better eco to sustain production, and who has better micro, which we can’t account for in a text-based forum.

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You should have switched to Arbalest or Hand Cannon and condottiero. And maybe Onager, but a bit hard to micro.
Arbalest are weak against Skirms that’s why he goes for Skirms but good fight against Kamayuk.

Kamayuk are strong against most of infantry that’s why go for champion was bad decision.

Champs trade well enaugh, and prevent the Inca player to transition into EEW, so it wasn’t a bad idea. The problem is that they take time and resources to transition into them.

Arbs deal only 4 damage vs kamayuks, HC is way better and cost effective (cheaper).

That’s an interesting fight here. Would condos+HC trade with kamayuks+slingers cost effectively? They are both expensive compositions, I wonder what the result would be…

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