What changes can improve Aztecs Late game?

Nice Straw man mate, good try!

I suggested it before, but what if Jaguar Warriors could get a permanent damage bonus for each unit they kill?

The big problem with going for Jaguar Warriors right now is, you build them to deal with enemy infantry, your enemy switches, and then your Jaguar Warrior Army is useless. They have a very narrow degree of applicability, and a broad list of counters.

This can be contrasted with other unique unit types which tends to have Broad applicability and a small list of counters. For example, if you can get into mangudai, that’s just a straight up good choice, even as you have to avoid things like skirmishers.

But with Jaguar warriors, all you can really do is try to Suicide them into the enemy and do as much damage as possible before swapping to something else. They are too niche, too specific.

But at the same time, you don’t want them to suddenly be good against everything. If you make them too cheap, or give them too much speed or Pierce armor, suddenly they would just become Unstoppable, good against everything.

That’s why I really like the idea of giving them a permanent bonus for killing things. They would still only start out being good against infantry, so you would build them in that case, but then you would get a powerful Army that is useful against everything, but cannot easily be replaced.

The opponent, rather than just countering them with whatever power unit they have available, would need to focus on specifically countering that boosted Army of jaguars, giving the Aztec player more time to transition into a different power unit of their own.

Jaguars are fine, they don’t need buffing. Like a lot of unique units, they’re situational. They absolutely shred Goths for example. Or any gambeson play in the current meta. Just because a civ has a certain unit, doesn’t mean you have to use it every game or it’s useless. It’s just another tool up your sleeve if you need it.

Given the fact that Aztecs is the only infantry civ among meso civ (Incas does not count since it used to be a tower civ and counter civ), I think we can give a ability to Jaguar Warrior that he can switch between two form of infantry like what Ratha did.

One form is the current Jaguar Warrior (human form) which slow and counter infantry.

Another form is a 4-foot fast moving infantry Jaguar Warrior (wild form) that is fast and do not have any bonus on it like what Eagle did.

Yes they are similar to Eagle but they don’t counter archer nor monk. Surely the attack damage will be decrease say -5 and they can have +5 charge attack for compensation. Ofc this shift form only available for Elite and maybe also Garland Wars is required


What? I’m asking a clarifying question because the initial suggestion was vague.

Jaguars should not have bonus damage against any other unit as they are already very effective against Infantry units, and a unit with 20 damage getting bonus against Cavalry or Archer units will make them very difficult to counter. They’d have to be nerfed in other areas, like HP or Armor, and then they’ll end up too similar to already existing unique units.

Calling Jaguars and Garland Wars Champions ‘similarity’ a degeneracy is also just wrong (and also weird wording). Jaguars have the benefit of having +10/11 bonus damage that Champs don’t get. You can see the effect clearly when you pit a high Melee armor infantry against Garland Wars Champion and Jaguar (who also benefits from Garland Wars!).

One could argue that Jaguars don’t fill their role as perfectly as they should, as in melee fights they still end up taking a lot of damage, so if buffing Jaguars is the goal, I’d rather say they should get a resistance like Shotel Warriors did last patch, against Infantry units.

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Honestly, I’m looking at their stats and they actually have a rising winrate in long games, so I’m not sure why they need lategame help.

If I had to guess, their +1 range skirms and relic bonuses are more than enough.


It still is design wise very weak and lacks a true purpose outside winning more…

They should not have it on top, but instead. Just straight bonus damage just versus infantry units is very weak flavour and even japanese are stronger in that regard by dealing bonus damage vs all UUs and not only infantry UUs. And yes vs champs aztecs can use just arbs + their own champs pretty well.

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Sure, if you only play team games and you’re always up against Crossbow/Arbalest + Cavalier/Paladin. But it’s not weak 1v1, it’s situational. Just like elephants. Tech switching into Jaguars (or elephants for that matter) when your opponent is not expecting it can be deadly and end the game. It’s just that Aztecs usually use eagles as their main infantry unit, as they are more ubiquitous, so because of their speed they are better at raiding and they can also kill crossbow.

Team games meta is a different discussion. I don’t think team games should be used as a reference point for whether a unit is underpowered or underused. Basically, if the unit is fine 1v1, it doesn’t need a buff.