What "Clear" role you want to give "Militia Line"?

[DemiserofD]

@FearfulSugar350

I would love them to be either the ultimate trash killer with bonus vs skirmisher, spearman and scout line. At the moment, the game has skirmisher and spearman armor class but no scout line class, but I don’t think it’s a problem to add a new armor class just for them. Sure they already kinda do the job but not efficient enough to be worth the gold cost. In fact they don’t even trade well at all against scout line.

Another option I want them to be is building razing units. They already have some bonus vs buildings but it’s really not impactful enough. I think arson should give them even more bonus vs buildings or just give them something like…idk +10 vs buildings at base or so.

They are really meant to be mixed with pikes. They’re both made from a barracks, and if your enemy is spamming hussar you can do just fine with champs in the short term and clobber them the instant you add some halbs with your existing barracks. Ultimately, the hussar are a long-term strategy that can be effectively countered. Champs, by contrast, cut off the potential halb counters, and most civs with good champs have good halbs, too.

[AbuzzJam4677680]

@DemiserofD

They are really meant to be mixed with pikes

They don’t really that synergize with each other. You can also argue that LS mix with rams…

[DemiserofD]

They synergize in that they both benefit from the same upgrades, and are both produced from the same building.

[SMUM15236]

And Eagle Scout. Buffing Eagle Scout may also buff MAA. But that’s just 3 civs.

@bigbossbro08

its high time Infantry doesnt get larped around into one group only. It needs Cavalry and Cavalry Archer armor class treatment. In this way M@A-line and Swordsman UU actually gets the buff intended.

The other 2 barrack units have their own armor class. Now if Militia line also gets their own, this will further prove how badly infantries are designed.

[AbuzzJam4677680]

@DemiserofD

benefit from the same upgrades,

But you have to pay lengthy research time and costly unit-line upgrade…

[DemiserofD]

You know, that suggests an interesting idea. What if the barracks got a sort of ‘war galley’ upgrade in castle age, where you got both pikemen AND longswords for one upgrade?

[bigbossbro08]

@DemiserofD

You know, that suggests an interesting idea. What if the barracks got a sort of ‘war galley’ upgrade in castle age, where you got both pikemen AND longswords for one upgrade?

Honestly a good suggestion in a way. But you still have M@A problem. Altho if you can make it skipping the Long Sword upgrade entirely if M@A is researched in Castle since you didnt in Feudal.

[AbuzzJam4677680]

Meta favors cavalry archers currently. Maybe Guard towers deal +2 vs CA. Rams deal +100 vs towers. Supplies -25 stone for towers as well. Militia can now build towers and rams in Castle age.

[bigbossbro08]

@AbuzzJam4677680

Meta favors cavalry archers currently.

Still surprised how long it took people to figure out how CAs are busted. Back in early 2024 both in old CD version and DE, CAs were if not the strongest unit in the game. I just did 1 TC play and targeted 3-4 range production. Enough to delete enemy’s base with CAs and Siege.

[DemiserofD]

Y’know, supplies reducing the stone cost of towers is oddly interesting. Towers also have seriously diminished returns in the mid to lategame.

[AbuzzJam4677680]

This is to counteract the CA meta but I am not sure how tower buff hurt xbow even xbow can benefit from towers.

[FearfulSugar350]

Dev can also buff militia line by doing the same thing with hoplite. Every 5 or 7 militia closed to each other will increase 1/1 armor, up to 2/2. Something like that.

[AbuzzJam4677680]

LS+ Guard towers can form some sort of map control for infantry civs but vulnerable to rams to avoid excessive tower rush in Castle age.

[Estevao9543]

One suggestion I haven’t seen in these recent threads about the militia line (although I’m sure it’s been suggested before) is to, in addition to other adjustments, reduce the line’s attack delay.

According to the wiki, the militia line is the only of the main units to have three attack delay variations:

0.35 sec → archer line
0.50 sec → Militia & 2HS; skirm and spear lines
0.63 sec → LS & Champion
0.68 sec → knight and scout lines
0.88 sec → M@A

I think it could help a lot in terms of survivability if the unit attacked a little faster than the spearman line. What do you think?

[fleuret_jp]

In real battle fields, swords were sub weapons while knights were running across and archers & pikes went steady. Swordsmen mainly appeared in siege battles. So today’s counter system is a real thing.
You can get a chance to win with militia-line by massing them, but that needs many farms so you may take a eco-delay risk (especially when using longswords).

Then, how about 4,5 longswords to break the opponent wall and eco. You need resources as much as using mangonels, but 4,5 longswords are versatile and have breakthrough power as mush as a ram. Above all, you can use archers or knights as a main army with 4,5 longswords so you don’t take a eco-delay risk so much. That’s a tactic to use longswords with low costs, and I’ll practice it.

[SMUM15236]

@AbuzzJam4677680

Or we can make new units in Castle age like laddermen (infantry) or escalade (siege) to lean ladder against any wall or building. The ladder only allow sword-/axe-wielding infantry and another ladderman to climb. The ladder can be destroyed by deleting the wall/building

Siege Tower exists.

@KHANATTILA

The stupidest thing is that infantry civilisations do not go LS because they have better choices.

If you are Viking, you want to play crossbow into berserker.
If you’re Teuton, probably some kts to defend yourself into halberdiers, onagers and BBCs
If you are Japanese, you play CA, much better
Slavs, who have free Supplies? Much better Knights, Monks and Cheap Siege.
Celts? A few wood raiders and then siege, siege and more siege protected by halbs.
Goths? You probably want to get a castle to do Huskarl without suffering any economic damage.

All civilisations that have a bonus in the militia line prefer to play something else. It’s not something you solve by simply giving an extra +1 of armour. On the contrary, that would make the Malians and Malays even more obnoxious to deal with.

I 2nd that. I think pure buffing militia line stats to make theme generalist is not the solution. Instead I’d keep them as specialized unit against spear, skirm and eagle, maybe LC/Hussar as well.

[AbuzzJam4677680]

@SMUM15236

@AbuzzJam4677680

The ladder only allow sword-/axe-wielding infantry and another ladderman to climb. The ladder can be destroyed by deleting the wall/building

Siege Tower exists.

To let it bypass double wall or house wall mechanics.

[KHANATTILA]

@SMUM15236

I 2nd that. I think pure buffing militia line stats to make theme generalist is not the solution. Instead I’d keep them as specialized unit against spear, skirm and eagle, maybe LC/Hussar as well.

Fore sure. They must be more efficient in their work, that is. They are actually extremely efficient even against camels

[SMUM15236]

Right. MAA is the worst unit in Feudal to play after the rush. And that is the real reason for not seeing any Long Swordsman in Castle Age.

@fleuret_jp

Heart should make mass LS near his base.

Heartt shouldn’t make LS to begin with.

@DemiserofD

With squires, those skirms could not have dealt damage without taking damage, and the game could easily have gone very differently. In practice, squires makes even MAA counter Skirms, even with perfect micro.

I see your point. But it is impractical to spend 100f in Feudal. That’s why I want a new Feudal tech at 25 food, 45 gold that will increase the speed of MAA only.

@DemiserofD

With Squires, you can escape the LOS of archers, meaning rather than being able to attack once, you can attack perpetually. Split your MAA, attack from multiple sides, force your enemy to constantly react. So yeah, you’re behind 100F, but with skill, they could be behind even further.

This is an exaggeration. Archer will still counter them.

[Martinurello]

@SMUM15236

But it is impractical to spend 100f in Feudal

Why not replace squires food cost for wood cost?