This one, I don’t like. A slow unit as glass cannon will only shatter like glass before the cannon fire.
I wish. But I’d rather pick Gambeson becomes free for all.
I feel like many things should be just free instead of locked behind a tech. Like melee Infantries in general having 20+ HP than what they have now. Anti-cav armor/attack is given to all infantry in Castle Age. As you said Gambeson being free too. To reduce upgrade complexity, M@A upgrade becomes instant in Castle Age. Also removing 1 tech if civ gets access to Champions.
I’ve been watching videos on marketing, and trying to approach the problem from different viewpoints.
Maybe the problem with the militia line isn’t the stats, it’s that it’s not FUN enough? Most of the commonly used units are also pretty dang fun to use. Can the same be said about the militia line? Maybe there are places where they might be more useful and we’d see them more - IF they were more fun to use.
3 Likes
I guess it is still somewhat an opinion.
I have the opinion that a unit should not be simultaneously hard to upgrade and also rarely useful.
This unit is objectively worse then most, of not all other generic units in the game. Some unit always has to be the worst, but I don’t like that the worst unit happens to be the Milita Line.
Which unit is more expensive to fully upgrade, both in resources and time?
Also since the upgrades are almost all in a line you can’t research them at the same time.
Cavalry Archers are expensive to upgrade but you can technically research Heavy Cavalry Archer, Bloodlines, Husbandry, Parthian Tactics, Thumb Ring, Ballistics and Chemistry at the same time if you have 2 universities and multiple stables and archery ranges.
That means half of the civilisations don’t have those units available.
And of those who have they also need to use them over the popular generic units, which they often don’t.
This again is pretty rare.
At the end Cavalry Archers are not that different then Crossbows. They do the same kind of damage and bonus damage and mostly that the same kind of damage. Theoretically they take anti cavalry damage, but most anti cavalry units are melee and have little to no pierce armour, so cavalry archers can easily avoid them.
That’s why I suggested making them faster.
Also they are as survivable as they are now, so not super fragile just not as tanks as the Champion.
I think from a balance standpoint Gambeson needs to stay a technology that is not available to all civilisations because some civilisations have pretty strong bonuses for the Milita Line already.
Locking things behind technologies allows making those things only available for certain civilisations.
That’s why I think some technologies that are available to all civilisations should be made free to make room for new technologies.
Arson being the best example. The only ones that don’t have it are the Goths and they have a civ bonus with the same effect instead.
Maybe the whole line upgrades until Long Swordsman should be free since those technologies are available to every civilisation anyway.
Armenians and Bulgarians would need their bonuses changed.
The free upgrades alone would make the Milita Line a lot more viable.
Like with Knights you would instantly have Long Swordsman in Castle Age instead of having to research 2 technologies.
Agree… I said it a time ago.
This is linked with this too:
I added “numbers” to the equation.
Units cheap but easy to mass and overwelm the oponent are fun to play too.
Beyond the stats, current militia-line far from being pleasent and fun to play, are stressfull and frustrating. You still can win, but it depends too much of the surprise factor or a lucky shoot ( a gap in the walls).
In case of Knight or crossbows focused civs, you already know what they will do in most cases, and still works.
Think this, If all infantry focused civs start to being played with full militia-line game plan, how do you think civs stats in sites like aoestats will drop?
I hope with my change, it won’t be a surprise anymore. Civs with good infantry bonus will make them common. A small fix, 25gold for jumping stone walls is again too low. So my final cost for Siege Tower would be 200w/160g → 300w/50g.
Edit: SOTL’s idea with slight modification.
The challenge there is that if you know a siege tower is coming, you can just…trap the units when they get over the wall. And then get obliterated by archers or siege. You need a fairly substantial amount of surprise to take advantage of it, surprise which becomes more and more rare the higher your skill level.
I don’t think a siege tower can ever be anything other than a surprise tactic for that reason. It’s for that reason I’ve thought maybe infantry should be able to slowly climb over buildings or something, but that seems like it could be pretty overpowered as well.
No, I think that Infantry need some new ability, something that makes them not only stronger but more fun to play with.
I made some tests with units and buildings sizes… I found a sweet spot where militias could pass through a wall of houses (reducing both, house and militia’s collision boxes) while bigger units like cavalry don’t.
Imagine an scenario where militas were the only unit able of walking through adjacent buildings (except palisades and stone walls). then, walls would be the only way to stop them.
In this scenario, siege tower could be a excels parter of militia-line.
2 Likes
What if this militia line (a cheaper and faster version, of course) ability was being able to build siege towers?
1 Like
Should it be available in feudal age or castle age? Petards can also synergize with long swords as well. Petards cost change to more gold-intensive then. One more use for guard towers in Castle age will be welcomed.
Eagle civs will be broken with this.
I vote for Arson attack bonus vs building is replaced by cavalry.
All 3 trash units have higher base speed. And only skirmisher can be caught by militia line after squires.
perhaps remove Eagles from this.
Perhaps a different utility. 2HS needs to feel different compared to Champs in some way to make it worthwhile. Maybe a bit speedier than Champs? Or add DLC’s faster movement thing of ramming ships at close distance to attack enemy?
You got a new honorable mention again.
Yeah, same idea. But can be risky with civ bonuses as infantry bonuses are way over board compared to others.
With current cost, it will be broken for a lot of civs like Malians, Goths, Armenians, Vikings.
I do like the idea of the Champion being more meaningful. Right now it feels kinda like busywork.
What if it triggered some sort of one-time effect, like fully regenerating the health on all existing militia units? Or at least some sort of temporary rapid regen, like they regen 1hp/second for the next 60 seconds. That could encourage players to use 2hs for a bit and then make the switch.
1 Like
+20 HP on Castle Age across the board can work but may still feel weak. Armenian Warrior Priest and Viking Champs proves it.
If this game was not 25 years old, I would agree.
No one is talking about this one? Is this that bad?
almost on point except the free automatic upgrade thing. Road to LS should be simplified. I have said several times making M@A instant research after reaching Castle Age. If civs have Champs then they should be able to research Champs only instead of waiting for 2HS.
Also it can be good opportunity for many civs to have their regional Imp M@A-line as well. Aztecs/Mayans/Incas getting a new Champ reskin and name like Chronicles
1 Like
I don’t get the connection between the game age and the unfun spot of militia-line? There was a time where militia was pleasent to play and a solid game plan in pvp history?
The Milita Line actually has a clear role right now, but it’s a very stupid one.
The role is to no take bonus damage from almost any unit.
The only generic unit with bonus damage is the Hand Cannon, which is locked behind an Imperial Age technology and also only available to half of the civilisations.
The original developers thought not taking bonus damage from Skirmishers and Spearman alone makes the Milita Line useful, but they were wrong. The other thing they got wrong is thinking that Gold was already very valuable in Castle Age.
This bad design has generally stayed the same over the years.
4 Likes
Glad they took fine decision for AOM atleast to solve it to some extent. Atleast you can feel having a proper role.
Also Human units across the board are fast(basically Jogging)