What do you guys think about interchanging Chakram Throwers and Shrivamsha Riders?

How do you think Gurjaras will play out when Shrivamsha Riders are made Castle UU and Chakram Throwers are made Barracks UU?

Will it buff or nerf the civ short term? Will it buff or nerf the civ long term?

I don’t remember any other civ with 2 proper UUs (unique upgrades, water UUs and Missionaries aren’t proper though), so this makes Gurjaras quite interesting.

Edit: Shared UUs like Genitours and UUs without elite cannot be called proper either because they cannot be modified to be created from a castle, like the other 3 criterion I mentioned.

I do thank the commenters for reminding about Incas and Berbers.

Chrakrams are just better though, and way cooler. They deserve to be the castle UU, even if it makes them harder to produce. Shrivamsha is just a kind of weak thing made at a stable.


I too thought they were weak, unless a group of them massacred my 3 Range Crossbowmen production with Dravidians being 20 seconds later to Castle Age.

That wouldn’t be a good idea. Shakrams would simply be op if you could create them from barracks and shrivamshas would be useless if they needed castles. You’d need to completely rework both units which isn’t worth the effort. Besides it makes sense that gurjaras archer counter are easier to get to than their infantry counters because you rarely get pushed with halbs in early castle age.

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You never get pushed with Halbs in early castle age, because Halbs are Imperial Age units.

Also, Chakram compliment Camels against Infantry notably Spear units, Monks and other camels and are decent at raiding due to their range, which also prevents enemy to rewall behind.

I meant pikes ofc, sry. Thing with pikes is until mid or late castle age pikes usually isn’t the best unit as it’s quite heavy investment which makes booming behind it hard while it gives little offensive potential. And by late castle age you can make castle as gurjaras and produce shakrams. That’s why you see non cav civs (and for that matter even cav civs quite frequently nowadays) usually open with xbows. So it makes sense that gurjaras have the counter to early castle age units ready without the need to get castle up.

Does Incas count? Or it is also out due to not having elite upgrade for slinger?

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about the Incas. And yes, without the Elite upgrade, I do not think a unit can be a Castle UU. The same logic goes for missionary, however a monk UU being made from a castle is just as ridiculous.

Berbers have two UUs

Either way this is a bad idea, would make infantry + siege pushes suck vs them

So do Italians, but shared UUs cannot be made Castle UU

Also for some reason Condos and Genitours arent consider proper UUs since they are lost in all tech mode.

It’s because both of them are tied to a team bonus, which is of course lost in all tech.

That’s a very innovative and refreshing suggestion I gotta admit!

I think that Shrivamsha, unlike Chakram, needs a redesign. It’s just like the first version of Steppe Lancers we had, not just by OPness, but the fact it can be either OP or useless, since it lacks a core role in the game beyond its gimmick.
Luckily this civ lacks access to Knights, which makes it much more balancable, the unit in my opinion has to cost more gold and much less food (to differentiate from Steppe/Hussar, and to make it more eco friendly and versatile early game) and have adjusted stats.

This kind of an interchanging can work with some adjustments to the Chakram thrower. Besides slower training time and higher gold cost. I’d take away its bonus vs. Eagles.

Tatars have a 2nd UU from their Castles with the Flaming Camel. Not really a proper one since no Elite version and it requires the UT to unlock. Still an interesting example since it means that things like the Condo or Slinger could have been Castle units too (I would not want them to be).