What do you think,are the chances of Shu, Wei and Wu being moved to chronicles?

[Polo88kai]

Just make the civs and units have a different name when in Campaign and anywhere else. It can still be called Shu in the 3K campaign, but called Bashu/ Bai/ Dail/ Whatever-you-think-it-suits outside 3K-related game mode.

I never understood the obsession and stubbornness of “We MUST have 3K civs for 3K campaign!”. We never need a “Kingdom of France” or “Joan of Arc’s army” for a Joan of Arc campaign (Yes, I dislike the concept of varient civ in AoE4), Franks is completely fine. And V&V is doing fine using only Japanese civs but with scenario triggers so they’re basically different custom civs for each Sengoku period warlords.

I still think the “rebranding the civs” is the most reasonable and practical suggestion to satisfy every party, but it still got ignored. I mean, the attitude… Yea I also don’t feel like to launch the game anymore. And I also not sure If I can watch tournaments without getting uncomfortable.

[Velk413]

@FloosWorld

At best, the 3K campaign gets its own entry in the sidebar of the main menu, which I doubt as well.

Yeah, being moved to its own sidebar entry I think is the ideal result, but I agree that the chances of it happening are about 1%

[800buthappy]

China’s history is complex and even inside China we often quarrel with each other.

For example, Shu is now known by you as part of Three Kingdom. But in China’s history, Shu was a highly independent civ in Southwest China since 5000 years ago.
It had Cancong Dynasty (their offsprings became Qing Qiang people in history, in three Kingdom era, they performed as knights for Shu Han, which mainly become today’s southwest Han Chinese, they have different lookings and traditional clothes from other Han Chinese), Boguan Dynasty (they accepted Central Empire and their offsprings founded Bai kingdom in central China, their offsprings in morden time use Bai as their familiy name), Yufu Dynasty (they are the seeds of Xia people and they accepted the Central Empire too, their offsprings founded Yu kingdom near Wei river, and their offsprings use Yu as their family name), Pubei Dynasty(Their offsprings are west Viet people and now become a part of Yi people, their ancient language is similar to Vietnamese), Kaiming Dynasty (The direct offsprings of Xia people, when Shu was conquered by Qin Dynasty, some of them retreated to their land in South and founded the Shu Dynasty of Vietnam). And in the following history, this place was indepent again and again, what I can remember including Gongsun Baima, Shu Han, Cheng Han, Qian Shu, Hou Shu, Ming(Chongqing, not Ming Dynasty), South Ming, Daxi and many smaller kingdoms which own part of traditional Shu area like Dian, Yelang, Cuan, Nanzhao, Dali. In morden time, China separated traditional Shu area into many parts of Sichuan, Chongqing, Yunnan, Guizhou, Southest of Gansu, South of Shan’xi and give up some of their lands in northeast India, north Burma, north Vietnam, just because they don’t want traditional area of Shu to get indepent again.

Kaiming Clan claimed they are the offspring of Qi (the founder of Xia Dynasty whose name is also called Kai, because in history we couldn’t call the name of the Son of Heaven directly, we need to use another word with similar sound or meaning instead of his real name).
Yufu Clan claimed they are the offspring of Yu (the father of Qi, a hero who overcame the great flood).
And Baima Tibetan claimed they are the offspring of Gun (the father of Yu, who failed to manage the flood and was killed by one of the five empirors.)
Here you can see that partial Tibetan, Southwest Han Chinese, Yi people, Vietnamese claimed they have the same ancestor which also matches their gene and languages. I know many people will disagree, but I won’t spend time in meaningless debating.

At least I think it’s proper to keep Shu as an indepent civ.

[800buthappy]

I know this is not a high quality comment. Just ignore it, it’s not important.

[JasuniSmith]

@FernandesI

The loudest opposition can get is top players and tournaments boycotting 3K civs. But would guys who make a living out of the game like TheViper do that? Even then, worst case scenario is FE adjusting those civs and never doing the same again.

Some currently ongoing tournaments have currently stated that the 5 new civs are banned. However, I believe that is due to the new civs being new with the accompanying balance issues. I doubt that will last long. If the Shu/Wei/Wu civs remain generally banned after Khitans and Jurchens become accepted in tournaments, then that would be noteworthy. But I don’t think that tournament hosts/players will have much interest in doing so.

[TrustfulMango90]

Every single history is complex, so there’s no argument at all. The problem we have with Wu, Shu and Wei, is that they are states/kingdoms - political entities - and not civilisations. If they made 3 civilisations instead, this would not have been issue. San Marino is also an independent country around 1700 years old - but we don’t have a “san marino” civ in game. Italians are very much capable of portraying san marino, because Italians are a civilisation. In the worst case, Sammarinese as a civilisation would do.

[DukeOfLorraine]

Unlikely as they were sold as civs accessible in multiplayer. Reworking them is an option (rename remove heroes modify them through and through to feel less out of place) but not outright removing them, for legal reasons.

[Tyranno13]

@DukeOfLorraine

for legal reasons.

Nah. They covered their backsides in some legal mumbo jumbo.

Plus it’s not impossible to remove them and replace them.

[DukeOfLorraine]

They can absolutely change them so much to fix the issue.

Renaming them ? Indians => Hindustani
Reworking them ? Some civs had an extensive rework

So combining both is an option. But we’d have to wait for a full rework + split of 3K into its own mode, IF they are even considering that in the first place. What they cannot do it just putting 3K away without compensation (reworking the civs and making it visible that they evolved).

[Tyranno13]

@DukeOfLorraine

So combining both is an option. But we’d have to wait for a full rework + split of 3K into its own mode, IF they are even considering that in the first place.

Well if they want to save face, an announcement of intention to do that would be a good idea. Sooner rather than later.

@DukeOfLorraine

What they cannot do it just putting 3K away without compensation (reworking the civs and making it visible that they evolved).

Sure. I’m very happy for that, and 5 civs actually from China is what I wanted from the start.

The Bai wouldn’t be all that difficult to recycle out of the Shu. Keep the White Feather Guard (re-name), castle and wonder. Re-name the techs and remove the hero and give them proper trebs. Done.

Wei could be reconstituted with the Khitans to make a interesting pair in Khitans and Tanguts. Use the Xianbei Raider for a Scout Cavalry Archer model, give the “Mounted Trebuchet” to the Tanguts along with the “Khitan” castle.

Wu is the weird one. So would require the most work.

Then just keep the original 3K civs for their own mode. Done.

[800buthappy]

Wu in history is semi-independent place, over 2000 years and earlier age, their low level citizens are Viet people, but their nobels are from Zhou people, who are from Northwest.
In the following thousands of years, northern immigrantes keep seizing the land of local people and killing them. But there are still some eastern Viet people remaining, for example, in Taiwan. Native Taiwan tribes are the offspring of Viet people, their Beinan Cultrual has similar relics to what we found in Southwest China. Because in ancient time they were all branches of Viet people.
And no matter in Southwest China or Southeast China, acient Viet people (or Xia people) use similar funerals. For example, they use a boat as the coffin for nobles. And they also use Jar as the coffin for common citizens and they rebury the Jar after several years. (The different funeral stypes show that even Viet people are mixed race, it seems they had 2 kinds of people, one with reprensentative Y-DNA D and another with representative Y-DNA O1.) And Viet people also love Jade “Zhang” (a sword like relic) and bronze drum. We found similar relics from northeast India to west Japan.

Here is a comparison of a sculpture which was made at least over 3000 years ago in southwest China, which is the same to northeast Indians’.

And sculptures of Xia people over 3000 years ago are also similar to what Baima Tibetan made nearly 2000 years ago.

And we found a lot of similar relics between southwest China and north Vietnam. However, Vietnamese denied their relationship with Chinese, they said they have independent origin.

CIA of USA knows the relationships between northeast Indian, southwest Chinese, north Burmese, north Laos and north Vietnamese. They finally choose Kachin people as their agent and try to found their own country which may cover part of India, part of China and part of Burma. And Kachin people is the main leader of the rebels in Burma. So the ancient history also influence modern time.

[SoleMouse123484]

@FloosWorld

0% as Chronicles is exclusively made by CaptureAge that hired the creators of the Romae Ad Bellum mod and it makes no sense to alienate their work.

Consistency of the game is more important than their alienation.

Their mod was intended for the game. The game is not intended for their mod.

@Vlad2

Oysters should appear for a normal map for AOE2 not just Chronicles

@FloosWorld Do you gatekeep this as well just so that the creators of that fucking mod don’t feel alienated?

What is more important? The game or their mod?

[Apocalypso4826]

@SoleMouse123484

@FloosWorld Do you gatekeep this as well just so that the creators of that ####### mod don’t feel alienated?

I think vulgarly accusing a mod of being toxic is a profoundly stupid idea.

[Zaphiron01]

@Apocalypso4826

I think vulgarly accusing a mod of being toxic is a profoundly stupid idea.

Maybe directly so, yeah. But honestly, there have been times even I’ve thought about doing so to at least one of them. Some of the Mods on here tend to be a bit more censuring than what is, in my opinion, strictly necessary. And, strong language aside, he does have a point. Most likely what is going to happen is Floos is going to edit his post anyway…

[FloosWorld]

1. I honestly wonder how you were able to bypass the profanity filter. I suggest reading the Code of Conduct again: Age of Empires Forum Code of Conduct and Terms of Service
2. Did you specifically created yet another account (beside ZestySage992416 and your main account), just to come and post this?
3. I don’t see how my reply is “gatekeeping”. I even support that idea and it’s already something modders can put into the game even without enabling antiquity mode.

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@Zaphiron01

Most likely what is going to happen is Floos is going to edit his post anyway…

Nah. I just find it weak creating another alt account just to blindly attack someone out of nowhere.
I, like other mods also only really act whenever something gets flagged.

[Zaphiron01]

@FloosWorld

Nah. I just find it weak creating another alt account just to blindly attack someone out of nowhere.
I, like other mods also only really act whenever something gets flagged.

Fair enough. My level of tolerance is subjective compared to the ToS of plenty of places; it tends to happen when you’re surrounded by swear words from an early age (road raging adult figures, typical family holiday arguments, etc.) They really don’t bother me to the point I deem them necessary for censure anymore. But hey, I get it. Gotta do what you gotta do.

[FloosWorld]

@Zaphiron01

Fair enough. My level of tolerance is subjective compared to the ToS of plenty of places; it tends to happen when you’re surrounded by swear words from an early age (road raging adult figures, typical family holiday arguments, etc.) They really don’t bother me to the point I deem them necessary for censure anymore. But hey, I get it. Gotta do what you gotta do.

I mean, yeah, swear words are normal as things get emotional, but I also have to enforce the rules set. :'D

I just find it fascinating every time that at some point certain people no longer see the person behind a name, but only the role they have. At the end of the day, we mods are also just fans of the series.

[Zaphiron01]

@FloosWorld

I mean, yeah, swear words are normal as things get emotional, but I also have to enforce the rules set. :'D

I just find it fascinating every time that at some point certain people no longer see the person behind a name, but only the role they have. At the end of the day, we mods are also just fans of the series

Again, fair lol. Just shows why I could never moderate; there’s too many things I would let by me just because I wouldn’t see them as bad.

As for the second part, I figured it out a while ago: People would rather dehumanize the person behind the role to make an easy scapegoat than take responsibility for their actions. By default we’re all allergic to fault, and it’s easier to hate on the person responsible of making sure you can’t do whatever it was you wanted to. To that end, I wouldn’t just call you a fan; you’re obviously more invested than 'just a fan.

[KHANATTILA]

@FloosWorld

0% as Chronicles is exclusively made by CaptureAge that hired the creators of the Romae Ad Bellum mod and it makes no sense to alienate their work.

At best, the 3K campaign gets its own entry in the sidebar of the main menu, which I doubt as well.

I think when people talk about Chronicles, they mean Chronicles-like. With an ad hoc button for the history of the 3 kingdoms.

[UpmostRook9474]

@800buthappy

But there are still some eastern Viet people remaining, for example, in Taiwan. Native Taiwan tribes are the offspring of Viet people, their Beinan Cultrual has similar relics to what we found in Southwest China. Because in ancient time they were all branches of Viet people.

No. The Taiwanese indigenous peoples are Austronesians, with linguistic, genetic and cultural ties to other Austronesian peoples, nothing to do with the Yue/Viet people. If anything, the Taiwanese indigenous peoples are closer to the Cham people who had located in what is now central and southern Vietnam.

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@Polo88kai

Just make the civs and units have a different name when in Campaign and anywhere else. It can still be called Shu in the 3K campaign, but called Bashu/ Bai/ Dail/ Whatever-you-think-it-suits outside 3K-related game mode.

@Tyranno13

The Bai wouldn’t be all that difficult to recycle out of the Shu. Keep the White Feather Guard (re-name), castle and wonder. Re-name the techs and remove the hero and give them proper trebs. Done.

Wei could be reconstituted with the Khitans to make a interesting pair in Khitans and Tanguts. Use the Xianbei Raider for a Scout Cavalry Archer model, give the “Mounted Trebuchet” to the Tanguts along with the “Khitan” castle.

Strongly against any attempt to “rename” the 3K by sacrificing potential medieval civs! This is despicable. Bai should not become the mask of Shu, and Khitans should not become the mask of Wei.

At least people can quit a game if there is a 3K civ meanwhile people can look forward those potential medieval civs being introduced properly. If those medieval civs are going to be the masks, they would become zombie civs with low accuracy to both of themselves and the 3K and I can’t no longer pretend they don’t exist. This is the worst situation.

Just move the 3K civs in a spin-off mode like The Chronicles, properly split the Khitanguts into Khitans and Tanguts, and introduce another 2 new well-crafted civs, e.g. the Bai and the Tibetans/Qiang, as a free update for people who have bought this DLC. People can still have 5 civs in multiplayer games as the promise.