What exactly is a “Helepolis”

[Temudhun]

Two hand melee weapons are more effective in duels, and sometimes in siege battles. On an openfield, it’s usually better to stay grouped in a relatively close formation, in which case a shield with a relatively short one hand mace or axe is more effective than waving around a long two hands swords and risking chopping off the head of the guy next to you. Obviously, polearms are a whole different matter.

[DukeOfLorraine]

Indeed, polearms used in formations are typically longer, pikes for example, than what you’d use in duel.

vs

The advantage of a 2h weapon over a 1h weapon is brutal. It’s not even about the weight of the weapon, medieval weapons were not that heavy (a 1h weapon like a sword or a hammer is typically around 1kg) : with 2 hands on your weapon, you can produce a lever effect considerably larger than what one of your wrists could do. Making it much easier to control the weapon (especially if the center of mass is away from the hand, a axe or a hammer for example), and control the enemy weapon by pushing it away or outright disarming him.

[JordanEver]

@DukeOfLorraine

The 2HS and champion look more armoured than the longsword, which makes sense, you would keep a shield at the expense of the extra power of a 2h weapon, so long that your armour isn’t reliable enough against missiles. A good chainmail may be enough against most bows, but if the enemy has longbows or crossbows, then you need plate.

Yeah that’s why Age 4 units makes sense. You get 2h units at the late ages where there is better armor but not forgetting the soldiers with shields. (where in age 2 shields completely disappear… but the knight line all have them until the end)

@ArrivedLeader22

When armour is good enough there’s no need for a shield. One of the reasons why heavy two handed polearms became popular in late Middle Ages.

That’s where the spearman line go. (but becomes a halberdier???)

[DukeOfLorraine]

@JordanEver

but the knight line all have them until the end)

Shields were still useful to deflect lances, even with a good armour you don’t want to be hit by a pointy stick carrying all the inertia of galloping a horse and its rider. Also using a 2h melee weapon while riding a horse would be impractical.

@JordanEver

That’s where the spearman line go. (but becomes a halberdier???)

Both pikes and halberds were used in formations, the pike was longer (better to stop a cavalry charge) but the halberd was more versatile so better against infantry. The game picked halberds, otherwise the unit would need a range of 1 like the kamayuk.

[Temudhun]

@DukeOfLorraine

The advantage of a 2h weapon over a 1h weapon is brutal. It’s not even about the weight of the weapon, medieval weapons were not that heavy (a 1h weapon like a sword or a hammer is typically around 1kg) : with 2 hands on your weapon, you can produce a lever effect considerably larger than what one of your wrists could do. Making it much easier to control the weapon (especially if the center of mass is away from the hand, a axe or a hammer for example), and control the enemy weapon by pushing it away or outright disarming him.

I absolutely agree if we’re talking one on one fights, skirmish or other situations where you won’t need to stay in formations (typically when you’re invading a castle and are fighting on a walkway or in stairways for instance). If you have to stay in formation, you need to think completely differently because you sacrifice a lot of your individual maneuverability in favor of the tactical adventages given by your mass. Obviously, AoE games can’t properly represent mass even with formations, so I guess the cool factor of two hand fighters beats a tactical adventage that can’t be represented in gameplay.

[DukeOfLorraine]

Even in formation : would you feel more confident holding the enemy away, with a 1h spear or a 2h pike or halberd ? One is much harder for the enemy to move away than the other, the lever effect your wrist can produce vs the lever effect both your hands 1m away can produce.

(yes with a 1h spear you can somewhat lock the spear into your elbow or armpit but it then restricts its movement)

[Temudhun]

Oh, I mentioned that polearms (including spears, pikes, halberds, voulges and so on) are a whole different matter. Since you can just point them at the enemies to pierce them or just let them impale themselves on it, the other guys in your formations don’t hinder your maneuverability as much as they would if you were using a two hand axe, sword or hammer which are all more effective when using the kinetic energy of huge circular movements. Of course you can still strike from above, but it then quickly become quite a predictable and easily countered move if it’s the only thing you can do (except with a halberd for instance).