What It serjeants had bonus vs infantry?

Ho. So in the latest pup, serjeants received a well deserved price reduction, but i doubt It would be enough. Also sicilians suffers from a problem of not having a good infantry counter having no FU archers and no hand cannons, and Champions still out-trade serjeants in cost efficiency.

So why not turn the serjeants into that counter and give them a bit of a niche to be really useful? What of the serjeants had a small bonus vs infantry? Could It be a useful finale fix for the unit? Would It be too much?

Numbers i was thinking are very small, like +1 feudal +2 Castle, +3 imperial, and maybe remove the bonus vs Eagles to compensate to not have a double bonus against them. Or +2/+3/+4, but no more than that

Honestly I think Hand Cannons would be a cool option for Sicillians to have given the -33% bonus damage to Land Military bonus and their high pierce attack being strong against Skirmishers, that bonus to me also feels intuitively like something that should be balanced around a civ that lacks a super strong go-to unit comps (unlike something like Franks or Britons), but has lots of decently strong options to maximize the situations it could be useful. Hauberk screwed this up I feel by giving Sicillians better than FU Cavaliers, that can’t be handled well with the usual counter options (Spears, Camels, Monks, etc)

But that aside I agree

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Sadly hand cannons cannot be given to sicilians for historical reasons. The same reason why they do not have BBC, they have no gunpowder option

Thus why i aimed for serjeants as a new niche option

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History isn’t the reason. HCs with reduced bonus damage counter even skirms and hussars. They will be too OP. That is the issue.
Sicilians have arbs with all attack upgrades except thumb ring.

The actual weakness of sicilians isn’t againt infantry civs. Their lowest win rates are against berbers, mongols, huns, bulgarians, spanish, and teutons. They have low win rates against Romans, but Romans are good against every thing right now. The only infantry civ they are weak to is the japanese.

So, the issue is against cavalry, not infantry.

Serjeants have a Bonus against Infantry.
It’s called Donjon.

Champions are meant to deal with most infantry UU cost effectively.

I want an infantry unit that is immune to/ take 50% less dmg from friendly fire of onagers. But idk if it helps serjeant.

Btw, their archers are still serviceable imo.

Sicilians lacks last armor upgrade which means that their Hand Cannoneers would be weaker than generic if they had Hand Cannoneer. Skirmisher has +4 bonus damage against archer and 33% bonus reduction decrease 1.33 bonus damage of Skirmisher and Sicilians lacks 1/2 armor due to missing last armor.

Hussar doesn’t have bonus damage against Hand Cannoneer, only Winged Hussar has +5 bonus damage. If Sicilians had Hand Cannon, their Hand Cannon would be slightly tankier against Winged Hussar, but Winged Hussar would still easily counter Sicilians Hand Cannon with 33% trample damage and +3.33 bonus damage.


Serjeants get exactly what they needed, a buff to make them more affordable in age 2, now being on pair with MAA, which still cost less but need a tech to have the food discount, while serjeants are just ready from the get go.

The only buff I would like to see is a change to their farm, so that they have a bit of extra food from the start.

I know that Hussars in general have no bonus damage against HCs. The point I was making is that HCs do enough damage to kill hussars and if HCs have a bit of a meatshield, hussars aren’t viable counters.

But I didn’t consider the point of missing last armour with HCs. That being the case, I actually don’t mind giving sicilians HCs. That is, if there are no balance related reasons against that.

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They are still not as cost efficient ad champion, while other infantry UU are getting stronger, like woads previous patch.
Serjeants still are slow, and cost 85 res even with -10F , which is 20 more than champion (15 of that being Gold…)

They still need something imho, at least -5 gold

Serviceable but counting for their lack of hand cannons and last armor i think they could have thumb ring and would never be a problem really, since atm sicilians have basically no good Power unit as even hauberk cavalier cost an awful lot now and damage reduction has been nerfed

Their farm eco bonus laso should be something different, and not attached to farm upgrades, and usable in dark Age.
Something like a staggered bonus food to farms from dark Age to Imperial but Independent from upgrades would already be Better

But biggest problem imho Is that you don’t have a good unit composition to go for compared to many other civs

Another problem is that serjeants recenti got buffer in HP in Castle Age, but are still with a very weak Attack, and in Imperial Age, they retain the weak Attack, but have gained no HP, meaning the elite upgrade only gives 10 HP now.

The unit still need love, bonus vs infantry was a suggestion to make il for their low Attack at least in that marchup while keeping them weak against cavalry and microed archers and siege

They could also gain +1 Attack per stage (6 in feudal, 9 in Castle, 12 in imp) and then they would be a good unit imho, or byffing their HP in imp to 90 or even 95, or Simply make them even cheaper but this time in Gold (-5 Gold or more for example)

I am ok with sicilians getting thumb ring. I am also fine that sicilians get back 50% resistance for strong scout rush but hauberk should only give +1/+1 armor instead. Cav+arbalest can be good composition, even better than Magyars one. Then, there is no need to buff sicilian eco after getting back 50% resistance. The early scout rush will be pretty good.

I have a concern of this buff that serjeants will be seldom deployed given good cavalier and arbalest.

Even prior to the Nerf, sicilians where not a strong scout rush civ. Pros mostly open archers with them and only selmod scouts, so i don’t think It would be a problem

I have no problem with hauberk Nerf to +1/+1 but then the tech needs to be massively cheaper than now, like 300 F 200 G at most, or cost more but maybe affect other units, like scouts as well to help trash wars