What NOT to do when suggesting Civilizations

[MUTYLATOR5553]

I fully agree with this.

Brazilians civ can always add something that the British USA civ or Spanish Mexicans civ don’t already have.

Gran Colombians civ could be somewhat similar to the Mexicans civ - I would like them to have a Muisca revolution similar to the Mayan revolution in the Mexicans civ.

Haiti could also be something a bit different due to them being a “French” post-colonial civ.

This way we would have 4 post-colonial civs (5 if include Gran Colombians) derived from the 4 LARGEST European colonial powers.

[M00Z1LLA]

My point is we don’t need Brazil. They don’t have much unique to offer and were so tied to Portugal that is was essentially the Portuguese that revolted from Brazil. Just flesh out the existing revolution and it would be fine.

In fact, we don’t need any more colonial civs. More than half the civs in the game are from Europe and there’s been no effort to offset that with civs from other regions. The size of colonial powers is also irrelevant. Realistically more revolution civs are going to be overwhelmingly different flavours of Spain.

[OperaticShip743]

@MUTYLATOR5553

Gran Colombians civ could be somewhat similar to the Mexicans civ - I would like them to have a Muisca revolution similar to the Mayan revolution in the Mexicans civ.

In that case a Pastuza revolution would make more sense: Pasto, refugio de la monarquía española (1781-1824): análisis histórico y socio-económico de Pasto, en el proceso independizante neogranadino - Dialnet
Although this occurs before and during their independence, it would make more sense than the musicas, which practically no longer existed except for some strongholds

[ElEncantadorDePerras]

Próximo DLC XD

[ElEncantadorDePerras]

Obviamente es un juego y no es perfecto en la cronología, pero tiene que existir cierta progresión en las edades. Por ejemplo, Italia también es una nación del siglo 19, pero esta mejor hecha que EEUU y México, porque tiene unidades y cosas que representan al reino de Venecia y a los estados pontificios, y después progresivamente se va convirtiendo en la Italia de garibaldi. Italia tiene galeras mientras que EEUU tiene barcos a vapor. EEUU y México se sienten fuera de época en el juego.

[HoopThrower]

The way I’ve interpreted it I’d always visioned Brazil as a civ that completely covers the Colonial Period, the national identity is firmly rooted in Entradas, Bandeirantes and Jesuits expanding the territory so it’s not too hard to cover the 1500s onwards without stepping into the portuguese civs’ toes.

[Cronkonium]

Canada can absolutely be seen as a separate entity and civilisation from a people’s perspective.
The majority of W.W.I. troops OF Canada, were from Britain/the U.K. - though throughout the identity of who they were… was Canadian. The more original Canadians brought ideas - which came from various native peoples, of carrying things using a band around your fore-head that is attached to a basket at your back. A fairly efficient method of carrying average to heavy loads. This was then transferred to other British & Empire-wide units as they came into contact - not that it became a main-stay, but small things held/transferred internally push evidence forwards that there was already cultural separations.
Canada has always been terrible when it comes to shafting the natives, but there is a genuine cultural difference that developed out of the French, British & then Canadian methods of discussed & parsed out Diplomatic Treaties compared to the U.S.'s version of oppressive force for coercive purposes leading to even more unequal treaties.
Cultural differences alone can be argued to be a standard by which Civilisations are judged. Allowing for any more complexity isn’t really workable/useful, since perspectives can be too dynamic and everything then becomes subjective.

As I’ve discussed with some very interested fellows who learn the game & the history of it. The start & end dates of this game’s scope is now huge… Almost anything is acceptable now, think of it like English - everyone just uses it however they want now bascially.

[M00Z1LLA]

I don’t see how that’s any different from Portugal. They also have references to Bandeirantes and are themed around their colonies. The core design of all the European civs includes their colonies. That’s why you have stuff like Coureur des Bois for France.

Just like Mexico and USA, there is no substantial difference between they would be far better represented by the metropole for the first 2/3rds of the games timeline.

[M00Z1LLA]

Canada was not and is not a distinct nation. Back then people self identified primarily as either Francophone, Native, or British subject. Even after becoming independent in 1982 the only difference is that people identify as “not American” instead of British.

[HoopThrower]

To me the problem with Canada isn’t even that they didn’t have a separate identity from the british, is that they barely had an identity of their own to begin with.

Just consider that Newfoundland was a completely different country until after World War II.

[ElEncantadorDePerras]

Tengo una idea de cómo podrían agregar a Colombia, argentina, Perú y Brasil sin que quede fuera de época como México y EE.UU.

para el caso de Perú, argentina y Colombia, vendrían las tres en una sola civilización, sería algo así:

empiezas siendo el Virreinato del Perú

Tus unidades en segunda edad serían los arqueros y piqueros incas más el conquistador y el húsar español

ahí salen rodeleros, pero imaginen que hay húsares XD
Todavía no tendrías acceso a mosqueteros, pero tendrías un dragón en segunda edad.

El explorador seria Francisco Pizarro

TERCERA EDAD:

Las unidades incas con la mejora de veterano obtienen pecheras de acero.

Se desbloquean dos unidades, el soldado mexicano (los uniformes eran iguales en la América española) y algún escaramuzador parecido al salteador mexicano.

CUARTA EDAD:

Llegan las reformas borbónicas y el virreinato del Perú se divide en tres (virreinato del Perú, virreinato de nueva granada y virreinato del rio de la plata) para subir a cuarta debes elegir uno de estos virreinatos, y esta elección determinará tu nación en quinta edad. Si elegiste virreinato del Perú, en quita edad serás Perú, si elegiste nueva granada serás Gran Colombia y si elegiste rio de la plata serás Argentina.

Cambios de unidades. Por ejemplo, si elegiste virreinato del rio de la plata los conquistadores serán reemplazados del establo por “gauchos”. Si elegiste Perú se reemplazan por “morocuchos”. Y si elegiste nueva granada se reemplazan por “llaneros” (el llanero no es un dragón, es un lancero, pero esto sería compensado con que los soldados colombianos obtengan un bonus a distancia contra caballería. El soldado peruano podría lanzar granadas y Argentina tendría los granaderos montados)

Cada virreinato puede otorgar algunas mejoras económicas.

Virreinato del Perú: entrega unas minas de plata y un par de mineros.
Virreinato del rio de la plata: entrega tres haciendas y vacas.
Virreinato de nueva granada: mejoras en la recolección de madera o algo enfocado en la madera.

CHILE podría seguir siendo una revolución para los virreinatos del Perú y del rio de la plata. Mientras que nueva granada tendría la revolución maya (solo porque está más cerca de Centroamérica que de Chile)

[ElEncantadorDePerras]

Brasil seria exactamente lo mismo sin la división de virreinatos. El dlc traería el virreinato del Perú y el virreinato de Brasil.

[SirBarnzy1]

@Cronkonium

Canada can absolutely be seen as a separate entity and civilisation from a people’s perspective.
The majority of W.W.I. troops OF Canada, were from Britain/the U.K. - though throughout the identity of who they were… was Canadian.

Absolutely? No way.

USA revolted and became their own country.
Canada did not revolt (they did have a couple of badly organised rebellions which were quelled) and declare independence during the whole AoE3 timeline. Even near the latter part of the timeframe (1867) did they become self-governing, but still a British dominion.

WWI also has no factor in this.

[Cronkonium]

Even the concept of being Loyalists set people apart in this time-period.
Being a loyalist, a native person, a settler to the West a fisherman in the East & all others & combinations there-of set a distinct culture. The culture is not just the elites from Britain & the domestic aristocracy located mostly in Kingston, Bytown & Montreal/Quebec City at the time.
The definitions one tries to push on civilisation will always fall through… there is nothing you can do except grab ONE of the most reasonable forms of - even if it’s kind of not useful. Even then civilisations can mean different things at different times - the bronze age had civilisations plural… they did not have a single civilisation that was predicated around the trading of raw materials & manufacturing of goods to then reverse the trade essentially.
Dynamic situations/setups are the best method for determining civilisations & they’re quite subjective!

[CitingOregano34]

The Lakota are also a modern civ, for example. They are based on the Lakota from the 18th and 19th centuries, AKA the time where they had access to horses. If the devs wanted to make sure every age represented a specific time period, with no creative liberties at all, the Lakota wouldn’t unlock cavalry until the Industrial Age.

[TheClaymore2004]

No.
USA! USA! USA!
XD

[OperaticShip743]

Modern in weaponry, but they already existed before the arrival of Columbus, (as far as I know)

[M00Z1LLA]

But it would be so much more 'Murica to start out by rebelling from the tyrannical British. Gotta earn those freedoms.

[TheClaymore2004]

Tbf we have minutemen, state militia and regulars who are all based (image wise) on how USA soldiers looked during the revolution.

[M00Z1LLA]

That still ignores hundreds of years of the timeline prior to the revolution.