sorry thought this was an AOE2 post but it still relevant
I think the balance issue is a big problem… but I find that randos can be really salty. I had a teammate wall me in on a map once which was not a fun game. So Salty and Toxic... What Should I Have Done?! - YouTube sorry for the poor audio. I have improved a lot since than but I think this perfectly ties in with the discussion
Wonders are kinda supposed to be a late-game decision. I am very bored of rushing to the Wonder team games. I think the games are ending way too soon because of it and for me, it’s not fun to play a tower defense game.
I never claimed they are unbeatable but 4 out of my last 5 team games wonders were built. The last one we stopped the wonder but I didn’t really have fun doing it. In the one prior to that, my teammate built the wonder and we won. I also was bored.
It is also annoying that the wonder is often built by a Chinese player who has put the great wall right next to the wonder. So landmark sniping becomes difficult.
I will admit there have been some games where the wonder victory led to fun and intense moments but those normally came after the game had played out for a little bit before the wonder was built.
It works in 1v1, so I don’t see the problem with requiring multiple wonders to be built for team games. I think you should have much more of an economic commitment than just a few hundred extra resources per player.
To answer your question, the wonder countdown starts when say 2 are built and you only need to kill one to stop and reset the timer. I hope it deters some people from wonder victories, that’s my goal. It is simply too common right now. I still think it could be a viable late-game decision or if people do rush to it they are going to be at a more significant disadvantage.
I also think sacred sites should trump wonder victories. Not just a shorter time but they should completely pause a wonder victory. I would take this change over the multiple wonders. Too often taking the sacred sites is already difficult but by the time you do the wonder victory is too low or heaven forbid you lose it for a moment only to regain it right away but now the timer has been reset and you are below the wonder timer.
*Rant over
People who don’t communicate and then get angry.
Why was mangonel buffed?
Why is Culverin 3x slower than bombard for which it should be a counter? how do u even want to catch them? Did a devs. even consider how long does it takes for Culverin to get into the fighting zone on super-overtuned tg maps?
I’m working (just taking a small break) so I can’t go through the whole thread but as someone who predominantly plays 4on4 I can give you my input. I will leave it up to others to see if this contributes to the big picture, confirms it or skews it.
Serious issues:
(1) Fire lancers. This is self evident and needs to be hotfixed.
(2) Siege, in particular clockwork form the chinese. This is somewhat self evident: typically games revolve around mass bombards and some nest of bees or mangonels.
(3) Water is too dominant. Any water will force you into fishing and to compete for map control via water. Ships are incredibly dominant. Very sturdy and a lot of firepower.
Wish list:
(4) Shared unit control option to micro units from allies (or leavers!)
(5) More relics. Current logic of 1 relic per player + 3 generates fewer relics per player in 4on4 than other game modes.
(6) Movement formation. I don’t need my landsknecht to escort my culverin to the front line. I want my units there ASAP. This is currently a formation that is by default for units in close proximity and frustrating. This goes for 1on1 games as well.
(7) Joining stone walls. I want to be able to connect my stone wall to that of allies.
(8) Word filtering needs to be lifted because see below:
I think your idea is good. The premise is to reduce the cost of the second landmark of the Chinese dynasty！It is better to change the research of increasing the springald scope of Rus to increasing attack power.
yesssss! that’s always my point, if players with all these bonuses dont make good use of them and make a strategy, they lose! No matter how op the civ is itself.
Players play poorly and blame unit for it. All the pro / high elo games I’ve seen FL not been destroying everything like many lower elo players suggest on these forums. And this includes team games perspective only now.
Sure and what would u suggest to give china back? Chinas strength is imperial and you’re looking to nerf it making china not viable civ anymore. In 1v1 China has one of the worst winrates sub 30min games. Same applies to team games. Either they need their ally to save them or they just need to get passive game.
You talk like a Chinese players. In the top 1.500 of team games, china is picked slightly over 25% of the times. That stand alone fact should tell you enough. You sound like someone worried your faction gets a balance change and your ELO will drop as a result of it. It will: it currently is elevated. Try maintaing your ELO playing other factions.
Note we are talking (4on4) team games here, not solo.
I solely play chinese which I chose on day1 of games launch before even playing the game. Also I only play 2v2 with random teammates so no premades.
This is my preferred way to play. If you got problem that then so be it. I got no interest in playing any other civ outside of IF japanese civ gets released.
Im not worried. If they nerf FL they nerf FL if they don’t then they don’t. Changes nothing how I play the game. If FL is issue in TG’s but not in 1v1 then there are simply better solutions than just nerffing them. Which I have suggested like increasing landmark hp in team games. Landmarks got standard values across the board so everything dies much faster when there is multiple players. This also would balance out english + french 5-7 ram push which can be quite difficult to deal especially for lower elo players.
And the fact still stands. China has one of the lowest win rates and are weak at feudal / castle.
In tournaments not seen FL used in way that players are describing in here which is just going for landmark snipe and even in engagement they’re just cannon fodder and first to die. Free to watch the matches yourself.
Yet alone no one in here had the courage to share their own replays where they get stomped by FL. Only one game was shared and that actually included me and opposite team was only tunnelvisioning my allies base even tho they had outpost coverage clearly showing FL rushing to english base which essentially is no different from getting 100 scouts to their base.
For me (playing Delhi), all the Delhi bugs ruin team games. It’s a given you’ll struggle in the all-in early feudal unit scenario (no early gold unit is a larger detriment in team games where you’re usually facing multiple types of opposing early gold units), but you also REALLY struggle in imp cause all your techs take too long to research to be relevant, AND you have no culverins to deal with the increased number of siege units. There’s this narrow window for success on maps that allow it (if the other team doesn’t pull off an all-in early gold unit feudal rush) to be strong in early-mid Castle. That’s about it. The size of the maps and presence of multiple opponents pushes nearly every game to Imperial, and that rarely works out well with the bugged and otherwise absurdly long tech times.
Setting Delhi-specific issues aside, I agree most of the maps are too large. Black Forest is BY FAR the worst offender. I despise that map. If I could have ONE ban, I would ban that map every game. Every single match is a wonder race. It’s just WAY too big for anything else to happen. By the time you manage to cross the winding paths through that massive forest, it’s impossible to overcome defender’s advantage. So whoever gets the wonder up first wins. I don’t know why the paths even exist. They should just block off the middle and let it be a boom race. The attacker loses every game anyway, so there’s no incentive to do that.
The other major issue I think is how quickly a single player falls to the 3 or 4 vs 1 Feudal rush. I’m not sure there’s any real solution to this that wouldn’t totally destroy 1v1 games though, so it may just be something we have to deal with. If you make defenses stronger (say TCs deal more damage to armored units), 1v1 attacks would become impossible. Maybe the best idea would be to have players start with an extra scout in team games. That would make scouting those rushes early a bit easier so the team can respond.