It’s just too strong in certain settings. Like Arabia.
Man it’s one of the civs with the worst Knight lines out there. And they do it all the time because of that eco bonus. Then they go 3 TC Arbs with the same bonus.
Give them something different, something that eg helps in other settings like Arena.
And ofc Romans too, no doubt about that. Their eco bonus is even more silly. Though not so much setting depending, so there could be other ways to handle them. However, I would prefer to change their eco bonus just because it’s so… unimaginative
PS: Also want to point out here. I just want the free Hand Cart to be reconsidered. Wheelbarrow is fine, though absurd to give that to vikings.
what’s the point of personal attacks like this? at no point did I ask for anything in this game that would be harmful to you, while you constantly make proposals that are harmful to my enjoyment of the game
PS: I still own my CD copies of the game, try installing those on windows 11 and tell me how it goes.
Some eco bonus needs players action and depends on choice - Saracens market, half of Burgundians bonus (when you research early eco techs), Chinese villagers, Gurjaras sheep. While some eco bonus just kicks in automatically - all free techs and faster working bonuses.
Makes sense, I’d just misunderstood your reason for disliking it.
I got The Conquerors to run on Windows 10 with userpatch 1.5 with very little effort. Can’t get earlier versions to run though… Weirdly, the various pre-release versions of AoK I have run no problem but the official CD release version doesn’t work at all.
I don’t know about multiplayer, but AoC single-player works surprisingly well under Windows 11.
The problem is that the CD check doesn’t work anymore, IIRC since Windows Vista. You need an executable file that runs without the CD check. https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Age_of_Empires_II:_The_Age_of_Kings
The executable from the Collector’s Edition does that, as also implied by the page above. Additionally, there is UserPatch that removes the CD requirement, though I never tried that.
Wdym?! I’ve had to switch computers like 5 times in the last 15 years and my version of CD I still have ran fine on all them. Even the latest one which is a Windows 11.
Vikings’ biggest problem isn’t that the Archer-line is too strong, or that the Berserker is too weak. The problem is that players don’t have a natural reason to choose infantry.
Simply adding more infantry HP has limited impact, especially early. The extra 20% HP matters more in late-game melee fights, but early infantry problems are usually about engagement, mobility, and tactical value, not just survivability.
I think Vikings need a way to naturally connect infantry with their eco, instead of forcing infantry play by nerfing the Archer-line.
Berserker already has a clear identity. With 40 HP/min regen, it’s a high-value unit that can be reused across fights. The issue isn’t more stats, but giving players a better way to use it.
One option is adjusting its cost. For example, making it more gold-focused early (40F 35G, numbers open to discussion) could make it a true elite investment. Later, a UT could reduce the gold cost and shift it toward a more sustainable Imperial Age unit.
Another idea:
TCs can train Berserkers.
This wouldn’t replace Castle production, but add another option.
Castle production is faster and doesn’t interrupt your eco, while TC production doesn’t need a Castle but competes with Villagers.
This creates a healthy trade-off:
Viking eco bonuses encourage growth, but Berserker mobilization lets players trade some eco for military pressure.
With a Castle Age restriction, slower training (e.g. 2x Castle production time), and a gold-focused cost, TC Berserkers wouldn’t become cheap UU spam. They’d become a special mobilization tool.
New playstyle:
Strong eco → More TCs → Berserker mobilization.
The point isn’t that TC Berserkers must be added. The point is making existing civ identity easier to use.
Second UUs, regional units, and new buildings are interesting ideas, but they’re major changes. Improving existing civ identity should come first.
Good civ design isn’t just adding more content. It’s making players understand:
“Why am I playing this civ, and why should I use this playstyle?”
I think the idea of giving extra Infantry HP instead of the free hand cart can work.
Vikings are generally starting a bit slow, so I think 5 % more HP in the early game is ok. In the midgame indeed it’s a bit useless. But I think that’s when Vikings eco shines the most even just with wheelbarrow for free.
Ofc it’s thinkable to give a staggering bonus here. But I think with just flat 5 % more HP the only piece of the puzzle missing would be a small buff to the non-elite zerks. Then they had their special infantry play in the midgame aswell.
I personally dont like it too much if units are trained at different buildings. It makes stuff unnecessarily confusing. Like… will you always remember to adjust your gathering point when changing what you produce? How do you solve the issue when you make both, vills and zerks…
In general I think as Vikings have the most basic Infantry bonus, they should also be one of the civs actually doing Infantry at most stages of the game. But thanks to their current eco, as the infantry bonus is seemingly not as good as others - they tend to make just the meta units instead, maybe with some infantry mixed in. But not nearly as much as you would expect from a civ with such a clear basic indicator bonus.
PS: We probably should also think about what Vikings would do if the militia line was generally viable in the midgame…
Vikings +20% bonus is actually staggered by ages (unit upgrade). Let it be staggered HP +10/+15/+20/+25 instead of percentage. Then, they don’t really upgrade the unit to get extra HP but by age advance.
I think that’s a bit too much in imp, then I would actually think of taking some other infantry techs away there as compensation. As compensation for losing Hand Cart this makes sense for early and midgame, but in imp it’s too much.
We see militia line play on Arabia quite frequently actually these days. Limited mostly to the early game, but also in the very lategame. So it definitely affects it.
It’s still a buff. And it doesn’t only affect the militia line.
Disagree. In almost all settings and situations their Champs are clearly superior to their Warrior Priessts. Ofc there might specific exceptions, but I only see fereters these days for the militia lne and not for the Priests.
They are amazingly strong and for me it’s clear that 90 HP Champs with extra bonusses would be seen as basically as strong if not even Stronger than the Ferreter CHamps. I also think Vikings in general have even the better support, but this isn’t as clear anymore now Armenians have gotten Siege Ram.
Mostly buff to late game. From +14 to +20. Their militia get an additional 6 HP.
Elite Berserker base HP without civ bonus 74/1.2=61, 61+20= 81, 81-74= 7. They should get additional 7 HP. It is still a buff but a bit of extra HP would not break the balance.
Yeah, I see your point about the TC production being a bit more complicated.
For me, though, it would just be an additional option. Castle production would stay unchanged, so players could simply keep using Castles if they prefer.
If you’re actually going for a Berserker rush, using some TCs to produce Berserkers would probably become the more natural choice, since you’re trading some villager production for more military pressure.
I also don’t think the rally-point issue is a huge problem. If the Berserkers are coming from TCs, you can just rally them near the TC and move them to the army later. Ideally, having separate rally points for different units would make this even better, but I see that more as a future design improvement.
Anyway, TC Berserkers are just one possible way to connect Vikings’ strong eco with their infantry identity. I’m not saying this is the only solution, or that it has to be implemented exactly this way.
Other potential Spanish unique units like Tercio or Almogavar would make more sense as unique for Pikemen and Skirmisher, but an Arquebusier being an upgrade to a Crossbowman would seem weird, as Hand Gunner doesn’t upgrade from archer either. More like a replacement at most, but i don’t think it would be needed, better to add Tercios or Almogavar as extra unique upgrades (also they should renamed the unit, “Conquistador” is not really a real military unit name, it should be called Mounted Arquebusier, but it is unlikely they will correct it)
I think Elite Berserker has 62 base HP, but I think increasing the Berserker’s base HP would be more practical. That way, either a % HP bonus or a flat HP bonus would still benefit it.