What we can learn from BOA2 meta

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
41

they still wouldn’t take cost effective trades against knights.
lets assume you use 2 long swords against 1 knight
total cost is 90 food and 40 gold vs 60 food and 75 gold.
each long sword is doing 11 damage - 4 armor for 7 damage per attack.
thats 18 attacks to kill a knight. or 9 rounds of attacks.
the knight is doing 12 damage - 2 armor so 10 damage per attack.
thats 6 attacks to kill the first long swordsman. in that time the knight takes 10 hits, and loses 70 health.
he has 50 less to kill the remaining long sword taking 7 damage a hit. which is 8 hits.
he now proceeds to kill the next long sword in 6 hits. the knight has taken a combined and has taken 15 hits total. that means he has lost 105 health. you’ve killed off 90 food and 40 gold worth of resources with 1 knight.
so you’d need to outproduce the knights by over a factor of 2 to 1 to win favorable engagements.
so like i said, you need some sort of buff to either their survival, or their damage output to make them a viable counter against knights.

the numbers for champion vs paladin
champs do 12 damage per attack (13 + 4 - 5).
Paladins do 14 damage per attack.
a paladin will kill a single Champ in 5 hits.
at two to one odds that means in those 5 hits he takes 96 damage.
he then proceeds to kill the other one in another 5 hits, taking 60 damage.

for the record, i am all for buffing the swordsman line, including supplies. i just don’t view the swordsman as part of this triangle you think it fills, as we literally got evidence otherwise

  1. in 20 years the devs have never made it a focus to try and make it compete with the archer and knight lines
  2. it is the only one of the 3 without a trash unit counter.

I think they should adjust the swordsman line to fully embrace its anti trash role. give it +bonus damage against the scout line and watch it become an even more cost effective trash killer.
it already has no issues killing halbs and skirms (halbs do 6 damage per attack to champs while champs do 14 damage per attack back, and skirms is even more laughable, throw in their slow attack rate to boot and the only unit that even stands a chance against the champion of trading favorably is the scout). give LS onwards + 5 bonus damage against Scout Cavalry line.

1 Like
42

U are still not understanding man. Why would i spend 350f 100g for two handed and then 750f 350g for champions then sell 200 res every time i want to make champ. I would rather make trash myself and save that gold for rams or trebs as we know trash has harder time killing seige.

1 Like
43

No counter to my argument about swords not being cost effective against knights? Thats fine by me.

Yeah its expensive to upgrade to champion. Just like hussar and halb are fairly expensive. Actually did you know it costs less gold to upgrade all the way from miltia to champ then it does to upgrade spear to halb?
Heck you can throw in the cost of supplies and still save gold.

Yeah I’m spending more food, but food is easy

44

Aren’t u forgetting something like cost of upgrading to m@a and LS? and if there is unfavourable fight, knights can run, LS can’t

and more food but that doesn’t matter, it is one time investment. Problems comes after when u have to sell resources at market to actually make champs which makes them lot more costly.
As i said before champ may have its uses after booming but LS are literally useless.

45

My point was you said that all the swordsman line needed to be cost-effective against knights was more speed and cheaper supplies, they didn’t need other buffs. I showed the math that proves it wrong.

46

I maybe wrong to assume they form triangle just like trash units form- infantry>cav>archer>infantry. LS maynot need a buff but reducing upgrade cost, supplies cost, increasing speed from 0.9 to 1 will not make them OP.

2 Likes
47

I’m not against buffinh speed or supplies.

Increase base speed to 1.0
Cheapen Supplies to 100 food or wood and 50 gold.
Give LS onwards whatever bonus damage they have against eagles against Scouts as well.

This can be easily done by applying https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Armor_class:_Eagle_Warrior to Scout Cavalry.
as an added benefit, most the infantry UU gets better against scouts, which i have no problem with seeing as most of them don’t see much use anyway and could use a little love.

2 Likes