Whats up with French Royal Knights?

I think royal knights are in a great spot rn but the french crossbows seem to be absolutely overpowered.

With the gambeson upgrade they have more armour than a knight (6 meele with just gambeson, 10 in imperial) while beeing light ranged type (so neither getting bonus dmged by archer (bonus vs light meele) nor crossbows or HRE maa (bonus vs heavy).

Crossbows are good against absolutely everything and get 8 meele armour and 2/7 ranged armour in castle age, making them immune against everything as well.

It’s absolutely impossible to stop a french player slowly leapfrogging forward with siegespam when the only thing that can damage those crossbows are gunpowder units in imperial or some lucky mass mangonel shots into his missplay.

The +5 armour on gambeson need to be reduced heavily to +2 or some rebalancing have to be done by making them heavy crossbows so some counter mechanics can grip on them with bonus dmg vs heavy.

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I agree with you @Keempf . The Arbaletriers are a jack of all trades. The counter system of AoE 4 does not really apply to them. They are definitely op. 10 melee armor as a light inf ranged unit is too insane and it feels very weird when you realize that their armor values not only beat the ones of MAA and knights, but is +2 higher. 6 melee armor should be the max for them. Or they should be made heavy with the tech, allowing to counter them with crossbows on your own. Light inf is called light inf, because they have light armor and low values. That’s not true for the Arbaletrier: That’s why they need to either nerf their armor or make them heavy.

It’s this or that.

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That’s why dev removed age 2 knight from Mongols, but they still keep age 2 knight for Rus and French.

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they seem to be, as you can see in this game where Arbaletriers win the day, for instance

AGE OF EMPIRES 4: El INCREƍBLE PODER de las ARBALESTAS - YouTube

The worst civ is by far the Chinese man. This civ tried to have everything and now it is a complete mess xD

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They should remove Rus and French early knights.
Early knight rush is just too tanky and OP

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They have a tough start and the Dynasty system does not feel too advantageous up until you have plenty ressources to go for it. That makes them slow starters, but their military and perks all around are pretty nice. Aussie_Drongo is rocking with them and in his hands the Chinese do seem quite strong. Their lategame is sick and their bombards are probably op. The clockwork version definitely is. If you can defend well with them, the Chinese can boom into quite a force. They are most definitely not the worst civ. For me it’s Dehli due to an even tougher early and mid game than the Chinese, who I rate at least a whole tier higher. And next to Dehli there is HRE for me, because they lack so much interesting and cool stuff. They are also very buggy in many regards. Don’t get me wrong, they do have their strengths and can win games, that is actually not my point, but mechanic, tech and unit wise they are very lackluster and boring. There are just no synergies, no real HRE comps except for infantry. All the rest is baseline boring. The religion part is also not too convincing aside from its early eco boni. They feel like the unwanted stepchild, because so much for them is just lazy and not working well. And look at their shields. Relic didn’t even care to give them a coat of arms. It’s a blank shield on knights and maa. And look at their wonder. The graphical quality of it is outrageous and it looks worse than other wonders. Not that it matters, but it just looks terrible. And that all shows me that the HRE is the civ that has gotten the least love.

The problem is they run out of resources. The Mongols on the other hand almost don’t run out of resources as long as they burn xD. They have one of the best late-game too due to their trade and special ability to gain resources for burning buildings xD

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I think HRE is so focused on infantry, that made it too fixed and kinda no good against other civilisations as they are more focused in many areas and countered easily by really strong knights, mangudais against melee units and elephants. The HRE simply gets owned by these units and is very simple to counter.

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As I see, most of the people who play with HRE and French, use only one unit. I played with Mongols against many of these players, they tried to fight against mangudai with melee units. None of them used archer, of course, it’s easy to kill them this way. Mangudai is extremely weak against archers. If
I play against England I don’t even try to use them.

Also, most of the players are not using scouts properly, just try to reach a3 or 4 as fast as they can, and they are surprised when they got attacked with a lot of units.

Maybe I am wrong but I don’t feel that HRE is that bad, they can be good, just they don’t have any speciality like other civs. But with their early economy, they can be quite fast, and early man at arms rush is not easy to counter.

HRE has a really strong feudal MAA+ram rush which works really well against civs that don’t have early knights but if you are facing french or rus it’s pretty hard to pull off if they go knights+archer. Apart from their feudal rush the HRE is kinda mediocre. The landsknect is pretty bad considering it costs as much gold as a knight and the prelate doesn’t even work sometimes. Maybe they could fix/buff their existing unique units and maybe add another unique unit like an imperial knight (Imperial Knight - Wikipedia ) or mounted handcannoners (reiters - Reiter - Wikipedia )

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What? You do the harras in feudal, by the time you reach castle it will be useless.

I have seen some pro players destroying french with HRE…

Also landsknect really well used here… Ive seen this guy playing HRE and he always uses landsknect… Is to early to judge balance…the good thing about HRE is that you can play it very aggressive or play it defensive.

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Landsknecht out of my opinion a Unit to mix in to your composition, not basing your composition on it.

MAA for the tanking, some Landsknechte in between to dish out damage. And then they do what they are supposed to do, which is dish out damage.

For the backbone of your army they are too expensive and get wrecked by archers.

Just mho.

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You are exactly right. You use Landsknecht as the damage dealer between your MAA and Knights who soak up the damage while Landsknechte go to work.
It is always a good idea to spice up the army comp with them.

Its the same with Abbasid Camel Archers actually, they Cost 180 Food 60 Wood each, and specially in feudal are a super heavy investment. No need to base your army on them, just have a couple mixed in with Spears and Archers for example to get the Buff.

All in all, i feel Unit Comps in Aoe4 can be pretty complex and then obviously also difficult to play. Also there still is so much to see and experiment in that regard.

I like it.

The HRE is boring, one dimensional, has barely any cool techs or units, only thing that’s good is MAA. Landsknecht is trash, rest is baseline with nothing interesting. Worst cav, worst archers, worst mechanics, worst lategame. Just terrible design with lots of stuff left to do. There is no civ identity. It’s a generic infantry civ with prelates. All the cool stuff is with other civs. It needs a lot of works and also more techs and maybe another unique unit. A knight unit would be very fitting:

  • fix prelate military use/fix inpsiration

  • fix civ clunkiness in regards of mechanics (eco and military)

  • add a unique knight upgrade that focusses on armor in age III (+2 armor, +10 hp, expensive and in monastery) → civ focus here: Plate meaning MAA and knights with prelates and baseline archer/siege support

  • Religion needs to stand out more. Rus (military) and Delhi (in general) feel better in that regard. HRE needs some perks here

  • move Landsknecht to age IV, make him anti cav, anti inf (in the sense of not weak against inf but viable), unarmored, fast and yet somewhat sturdy

  • add a Hand Cannoneer upgrade making them Landsknechts with arquebuses. Give them a bit more dmg or 10 more hp or make them a bit faster or whatever, just make them useful and kinda special.

Are you serious? Even in this match you could see how terrible the Landknecht is. The unit just dies. It costs freaking 100 gold and was an elite and front row soldier, not an auxiliary wimp like Relic made him into. You can even read all that stuff up when doing the HRE masteries. This unit is pathetic. I respect Matiz, he is a great player and an amazing SC2 coach, but fuck me… Him building Landsknechts kills me inside. You can get a knight for that or 5 MAA. This unit is such a joke. It’s the only unique unit (aside from overloaded Chinese) that has not a single unique upgrade. It is the only unit you can barely use for anything. It has only rare occasions in which it does some work, but it never is worth its 100 gold. Never ever. This unit is the definition of trash. Expensive trash at that. It’s trash that is not even good enough for a trash war, because in order to be good for that, it would have to cost 40 food and 20 gold. This unit is that terrible. It dies to everything.

And don’t tell me ā€œit needs to be mixed inā€. Yeah, you can do that against scrubs. Or when you are Matiz. In the video you linked the caster didn’t know what he was talking about. The battles in which the Landsknechte were used were all in favor of Matiz. All these battles were onsided, the HRE was always in a big number advantage. At minute 27, however, you can really see what Landsknechte are made of. They get in, they attack the archers and they all die with 50% archers being left alive. Minute 27 is the one moment of the video when you want to talk about the power of the Landsknecht, because it is the only battle in which the HRE advantage is not huge. It’s THE worst unique unit by far. It costs 100 gold!!!111oneelevengoddamn

And this was one of THE worst matches of Hera in AoE IV.

I don’t wanna be the A-hole here, but this is just theoretical stuff that also is historically highly inadequate. The Landsknecht was a complete different kind of soldier, he was not what Relic made him to be. And he never ever is worth the 100 gold. Relic wants him to be a unit that can be sucessfully mixed in with other units, but it doesn’t work like that. You can’t design a knight costs melee unit that can barely beat a spearman. It is always better to build a knight, 5 MAA or a Hand Cannoneer instead of a stupid Landsknecht. He was lightly armored but excelled vs heavy armor and especially cav. He was durable and survived most of the battles. It was his job, he was a mercenary. Mercenaries are not suicidal. This unit would not even be picked for Suicide Squad 2. It is just trash. Hell, freaking Weasle is more of an asset than the Landsknecht.

It is the ONE unit you actually never see. Unless you are ahead and get 3 relics easily and uncontested, so there is actually no harm in mixing Landsknechte in for the heck of it. It’s the only moment when they are useful: You are ahead, you start to shit gold, you cannot actually lose, you wanna be fancy, but you still notice that this unit is completely useless for anything else and especially for late game, so you stop building it shortly after you’ve built, because you actually do not want to throw the game.

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I just want the HRE to have some unique siege
The french does so much as a Jack-Of-All civilization, that it calls into question why other civilizations should be limited to one dimensional plays. French get:
Early Stage Navy
Range Resistance Crossbowmen
Powerful Knights
Powerful Artillery
Powerful Passive Economy that gets stronger in each age


Compare that to the HRE who get:
Early MAA with a bugged anti-armor
Melee Resistant Spearmen
Costly and Unarmored Unique Infantry
Slight Movement Bonus to All Infantry
Hardly Noticeable Health Upgrades to Structures via Research and Relics
This means you can counter a majority of HRE bonuses with basic mangonels and crossbows. Essentially turning the HRE into a one-trick pony with no real backup when getting countered. Probably the only cool thing is having a speed increased ranged infantry which could outpace melee. However once again the entire unit roster to focus on as HRE can be countered with mangonels or nest of bees.

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The French do not only have range resistant crossbows, these crossbows also end up with 10 melee armor. They can only be cost effectively countered by siege, nothing else. It is ridiculous. The French are the biggest joke in the game. They just have everything. You want it? French have it.

Faster vill production

Cheaper eco techs

Cheaper drop off buildings

A stable landmark for the best knights in the game that ofc are available in feudal

The best crossbows by far. They are ridiculous. They have more melee armor than plate units. This is just terrible design.

They can have very cheap units when production is built next to a castle

They have an age III ship in age II

They have the best artillery just after the chinese

They have great trade

They have the Guild Hall, which is just ridiculous

The HRE has clunky eco prelates and MAA. The rest is not interesting.


The civ balance in this game is a catastrophe of epic proportions. It feels like Relic does not have a single clue how to treat a RTS game. They probably had to release the game, although it is unfinished. The 4 campaign civs have gotten some polish and love. But the other civs did not get that. They should have, but the time was up. And this is why we are playing this open beta game.

If it had been possible, which it was not, the Genesis tournament would have been 100% French. You bet it would have, there’s money on the line and people want to win it. Relic will need to act and stop jerking themselves off for having a successful release, because otherwise they will lose players. The numbers will drop if next week does not see a patch that at least adresses some of the issues. Nobody wants to play vs French all the time. It is so obvious how broken that civ is, it’s not even funny anymore. But seeing how the Mongol TC lame is going to be adressed, I have only low hopes for good and elaborate fixes. Having the Mongol TC not being able to be built up in the vicinity of an enemy TC is THE worst solution for the lame as it just adds a restriction for a broken mechanic. Also packed buildings should never be able to outrun cavalry or faster infantry like spearmen. It’s another design flaw. This game could be so much better. And maybe it will be at some point. But the devs need to give a roadmap. They need to communicate, they need to show that you can count on them. Otherwise a lot of people will start getting annoyed and will probably even stop playing. At least for a while.

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If I told you I beat two french players on a water map as me and my ally are HRE would that make you happier? They kept destroying us on the water with nonstop boat raids, so I trained a bunch of transports and stored them on the far corner of the map, then filled them with 70spears and 8 mangonels then landed on the flank of the french island and destroyed them because they had no land army. Their response was ā€œgg I guessā€, the salt was amazing!

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