When is the right time to see a separate campaign for Koreans civ?

This is my very first time writing a post like this. I’ve been a long-time fan of this game, having picked up AOE1, RoR, AOE2, The Conquerors, AOE3, and AOE4 over 25 years. While I usually just enjoy playing, a couple of things recently have nudged me to finally share some thoughts. Specifically, I saw a tweet (https://x.com/SandyofCthulhu/status/1902050688643035499) that touched on some stories in developing (though didn’t capture the full context ), and the announcement of the new 3k dlc.

  1. Some older players might remember: the controversy around the original AOE1 Yamato (Japanese) campaign. As I recall, originally, at least two scenarios culminated in a historically inaccurate victory, where the Yamato civilization conquered Chosen they didn’t actually conquer in reality. This ending was later changed in subsequent patches (Kyushu Revolts) because of this controversy.

  2. After this controversy, I sometimes wonder if maybe Ensemble Studios decided not to touch Northeast Asian history anymore. It’s noticeable that after AOE1, we didn’t get dedicated, multi-campaigns specifically for the Chinese, Japanese, or Korean civilizations in AOE2, even after Koreans civ was introduced. Yes, these civs featured in Historical Battles, but that was the extent of it. Personally, after the Koreans were added in The Conquerors, I kept hoping that one day we’d see a full Korean historical campaign exploring their rich history. For this hope, I’ve been waiting for this for 25 years. I’ve purchased all the AOE2 DLCs over the years, including the HD edition, always hoping for more focus on this region.

  3. So, when I recently heard rumors about reworks for the Korean and Chinese civs, and adding three more related civs, I was genuinely thrilled. It felt like maybe, finally, the time was coming. There’s so much potential, especially in the eras following the collapse of the Tang Dynasty, for fascinating campaigns between these civs. Imagine scenarios based on:
    The Koreans-Khitan Wars (993-1019)
    The Jurchen conflicts with Goryeo (1104 and 1107)
    The Mongol invasions of Korea (1231-1257)
    The Imjin War (Japanese invasions of Korea, 1592-1598)
    The collapse of Khitan due to Jurchen, the relationship between Khitan, Jurchen, Song dynasty, Mongols, and Koreans etc etc.

These are examples of interesting historical conflicts.

  1. But these historical events remain untapped for campaigns. Instead, I saw development focus for 3k. It led me to imagine how decisions might get made.

A: Okay, what’s the theme for our next big AOE2 content drop? Maybe it’s time to finally focus on some of that Northeast Asian history
B: How about focusing on a theme like the 3k period? It’s huge in China, and many Western fans know it from games and stories. Big potential audience, likely good revenue. Plus, there have been successful 3k-related games recently showing the interest is there."
A: Good point.
C: But what about campaigns for the newer civs, or giving the Japanese or Koreans their own campaigns?"
A: Meh, maybe next time.

So, it feels like Korean history takes a backseat.

  1. Yes, maybe the perception is that Koreans have a minor fanbase. Is that why, even in the recent V&V and 3k dlc which added 3 separate missions featuring Japanese and Chinese, but nothing new for Koreans? Look at the impressive number of campaigns dedicated to South Asian and Southeast Asian civs added over the years – they highlight the gap. After 25 years, the only official dedicated Korean mission remains the Noryang historical battle. It starts to feel more like a message, intentional or not, that reads like: “Your history isn’t popular enough; why should we invest in representing you?”

  2. Long story short, after years of waiting and seeing the direction things continue to take, I’ve personally decided I have to quit investing further. I won’t be purchasing additional DLCs for anymore. I know that because interests like mine seem to be considered minor, my individual decision won’t change the big stream of development or the community focus. It’s just one purchase lost. But at least I wanted to share my thoughts and express this frustration.

It leaves me with questions for the developers, Considering the consistent lack of dedicated campaign content, even as a unit potentially inspired by Korean history (Hwacha, precursor to the rocket carts, being added in the new DLC for other civs) appear, why did you add the Korean civilization 25 years ago and there is no campaign? Is this because they were included without genuine consideration for telling Korean stories?

Thanks for reading my first – and perhaps last – post on this topic.

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Vikings says hi.

Vikings reshaped europe and had contact with everybody but no campaign for them since aok.

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Yeah but they got multiple (and many bad with V&V) scenarios…

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pretty much mirrors my hopes, thoughts and frustrations. But honestly atp I doubt we’ll every get anything decent ever again. We’ve been getting nothing but slop for the longest time, now and I’m close to quitting the game and just move on. I’m tired of replaying the current campaigns or the mods.

Koreans got historical battle as well.

Only one (hence “multiple” for Vikings)

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Wait for Three Kingdoms 2 DLC for AOE2 DE
Goguryeo, Baekje and Silla added to ranked, featuring “new” gameplay elements of god powers, Gapsa replacing the MAA line, and their own campaigns.
Ainu and Ryukyu added as additional bonus civs. FIVE CIVS. You didn’t read it wrong.
Old Korean remains the same

All the Korean starcraft pros will buy it.

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Jurchen vs Koreans was perfect for this dlc.

It’s well documented on both korean and chinese accounts; and there are tales of heroism from both sides with consequences in the region like stopping the tribute of women from Korea to the jurchens, making Goryo more independent and stronger, Jurchens gaining huge cultural development and prosperity at the beginning, but weakening militarly at the end; and Ming being the one that ended up winning the most from the conflict between the 2 (this could be prelude for the chinese campaign).

Opportunity wasted.

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Its ironic that the campaign less civilizations increased from 3 to 5 with a DLC when it should have been the other way around.

I have a series of China-based DLC ideas in the works, and they include Goguryeo as a new faction, with “Peninsular Three Kingdoms” as a scenario set.
In this series you also get to play as Silla (Koreans) unifying the peninsula in a campaign in a later installment, then Goryeo (starts off as Goguryeo but then changes to Koreans for the later scenarios) unifying the peninsula and resisting the Khitan Liao in another later installment.

I’ve finished laying out the expected sequence (15 installments from the Han-Xiongnu/Hunnu Wars to the end of Ming, each with 6-9 items, with 1 new civ, 1 new campaign, or 1 new scenario set as an item). I’ll post it soonish (at latest before 3K releases) depending on how fast I can work out enough of the civs to feel comfortable posting.

This is the most disapointing part

This is probably the only East Asian DLC we are getting and its all about three states of the Third century with most of their campaigns taking place in the last two decades of the second century

This was tgeir chance to fully flesh out a region with campaigns and all the civs needed

I hope we can get those campsigns and evem a few of the missing civs eventually but seems very unlikely

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I think it’s safe to say that’s what most people expected, my friend. Full length campaign about the pre-Mongols empire history, with a A long connected storyline (like they did in the Poles DLC), with most Asian factions involved.

But all hope are lost because of “3K is so popular we need to take that piece of pie!”

Some people keep saying Sandy bought up how Koreans was added in game was a coincidence. I don’t buy that, maybe I’m just emotional.

weren’t the Koreans added back in the day because of its big Korean playerbase? And I think that dlc back then did relatively well in Korea because of the Korean civ.
At least it fit into the game good enough (albeit a bit gimmicky).
This upcoming dlc is just outright an abomination. Two things that should have never been fused together, have been fused together.

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