I’m going to start this by openly admitting I’m part of the “Please no more Euro civs” crowd. And a big part of this is because I don’t really see what more Euro civs can bring to the table that isn’t either: A) Too similar to things that already exist, B) Couldn’t be done in a better or more interesting way by a non-Euro civ, or C) Isn’t just totally ridiculous as mechanics, like a lot worse than the kind of stuff we have right now. And I don’t know how much of that is shared by other people, but I do know that there is definitely a group that isn’t a fan of Euro civs, in the same way there are groups that aren’t a fan of other civ ideas. Therefore, when someone suggests a civ, they should have to provide a civ design in my opinion. This lets people make much better comparisons to current civs, and better gauge the worth of the idea as part of the game. What do people think?
Problem with that is that a lot of people struggle a lot with balance or try stuff that its too weird. It would be hard to also design a civ each time you want to talk about an specific people (I can deal with that, but I imagine most people cant). It would basically limit a lot the discussions
Exactly, that’s the idea. It’s meant to limit civ discussions, especially the Euro civs, because most of the time, people can’t come with good bonuses that are distinct.
No
20 character word limit.
But wouldnt it become just 5 or 6 people proposing civs while the rest just criticizes them?
I totally agree that people suggesting a civilisation should provide a civ design, but with a pretty loose interpretation of what “civ design” means. I feel like we see two extremes when people suggest civs. Either they give almost no information at all, some of it irrelevant, e.g. the language they speak and the name of a unique unit – in which case there’s nothing really to discuss – or they give a full account of their bonuses, unique units/techs/buildings, and tech tree – in which case the discussions tend to get bogged down in details.
When someone suggests a civ, what I really want to know about them is what they specialise in, what makes their unique unit(s) unique, and what makes this civ different from the existing ones. Some ideas for bonuses and an idea of the overall shape of the tech tree is good, especially where those things interact – but I don’t think it’s helpful to know the exact numbers in bonuses, or whether they get Stone Shaft Mining/Crop Rotation/whatever. No one has good enough intuition about balance for that level of detail to be very meaningful.
what European civ suggestions would you like to know bonuses etc of?
I’m not in favor of censoring ideas. That’s how you stagnate a community, by limiting conversations to a select few who are eligible to participate instead of drawing from the entire group. I understand from this
that you have your frustrations with people asking for certain civs, but limiting the ability to suggest civ ideas is harmful, full stop.
Well then those people shouldn’t make civ suggestions…
I think the main ones I’ve seen suggested recently with no detail were Bavarians, Saxons, Swedes, Aragonese, Welsh, Scots, Irish. But I don’t think the people suggesting them actually had any details in mind.
And those kind of civs are why I proposed this idea. What are they going to do that’s distinct? Bavarians are covered by Teutons, Saxons by Teutons, Britons, and Vikings mostly, Swedes are kind of Vikings, although they have the most potential. Aragonese are somewhat covered by Portuguese and Spanish, the Britons literally use the Welsh Longbow, the Celts are a influenced by the Scots and Irish I think.
There are ways to change up things and make them unique,all of DE civs are just V2 of someone who can cover them already.
I personally am all for this, but I would like to ask, what are the supposed requirements to create a civ design? Can someone atleast make a template or necessary information needed for peeps to know before they submit a civ design? I feel that might help guide peeps in their design decisions.
This is the template I’m using for stuff, but it conveys the general idea, although it might not work for everyone:
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Civ Tags:
- This is the sentence describing the civ that goes on the tech tree.
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Architecture:
- This tells you which architecture set to use.
- This is the wonder for the civ.
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Civ Bonuses:
- The list of civ specific custom bonuses.
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Unique Units:
- This is an example unique unit. They will largely follow this format, although ranged units will have more stats:
- Full description of the unit, for use in the tech trees. This will always be in italics.
- Costs X, and takes Y seconds to train.
- Has X HP, Y attack, and Z armor.
- Rate of fire is X, movement speed is Y, and Z line of sight.
- It has armor classes X.
- It has bonus damages X, only if relevant.
- Any special abilities, only if relevant.
- Elite Upgrade costs X and Y, and takes Z seconds to research.
- Elite has X HP, Y attack, and Z armor.
- Other Elite Changes, only if relevant.
- This is an example unique unit. They will largely follow this format, although ranged units will have more stats:
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Unique Technologies:
- The Castle Age UT. Format is: Effect/description. Cost and research time. Further details about effect not shown to players.
- The Imperial Age UT, with the same format as above.
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Team Bonus:
- The civ team bonus.
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Tech Tree:
- Archery Range: Lists the highest level upgrades for each unit line, and all other techs the civ has. Unique units will be in Italics. Don’t include any units or techs that aren’t mentioned.
- Barracks: Lists the highest level upgrades for each unit line, and all other techs the civ has. Unique units will be in Italics. Don’t include any units or techs that aren’t mentioned.
- Stable: Lists the highest level upgrades for each unit line, and all other techs the civ has. Unique units will be in Italics. Don’t include any units or techs that aren’t mentioned.
- Siege Workshop: Lists the highest level upgrades for each unit line, and all other techs the civ has. Unique units will be in Italics. Don’t include any units or techs that aren’t mentioned.
- Blacksmith: Format is everything except any missing techs.
- Dock: Format is everything except any missing techs/units/upgrades. Include Unique units if applicable.
- University: Format is everything except any missing techs.
- Monastery: Format is everything except any missing techs.
- Economy: Format is everything except any missing techs. This category includes all techs and units from any of the following: Mill, Mining Camp, Lumber Camp, Market.
- Town Center and Castle: Format is everything except any missing techs. This category includes all techs an units from the Town Center or Castle.
oh those are all weird picks, sorry, can’t help you!
Makes sense but I think it would be cool for you to give a practical example just to give us an idea of what you imagine.
For example, @TheConqueror753 gave a template that would be useful, but according to your post, it might have too much info or too specific for the average player.
Edit: fixed mistranslation
Tbh thats not true for Bengalis or Dradivians
But for the rest yeah, and thats not a good thing.
I think we should still be allowed to say things like “you know, I’d like an African civ next”. Bam, civ suggestion without even posting a name. That’s a normal sentence to post during a normal civ discussion. What I find annoying is people who just have to.open multiple threads sometimes across several subforums to share their idea. But the ideas themselves have no minimum or maximum amount of detail, as far as I’m concerned.
Saxons are mostly covered by Goths imo. Or rather, Goths are built almost like Saxons should have been, with a heavy focus on melee infantry and the huskarl as a UU, while Goths were known as being one of the best German people at using cavalry during the Early Middle Ages (though probably not as good as the Vandals).
Someone suggested that the longbow could be a regional alternate archery line upgrade for Welsh and Britons/English. The obvious con is that there’s probably no UU that would better represent the English than the longbow (though arguably the winged hussar may represent both the Poles and the Lithuanians better than their respective castle UU’s), but on the other hand it would make the Briton’s Archery Range boni more useful.
I think it should be as open as possible for anyone who is really interested/motivated to propose a civ.
I actually think it’s way more like positively encouraging people to actively compound their different interests. I for my part love to play with balance things so I like to see people proposing civ Ideas that don’t have an Idea how it could be designed to give my input how I think it could be designed.
So definetely no, I actually evne think the opposite - I like if civ designers just propose historical stuff and artwork or whatever so I get a feeling what the civ is about in-game.