Which civ needs to be buffed the most? [Poll]

Which civ should be buffed the most?
  • Aztecs
  • Berbers
  • Britons
  • Bulgarians
  • Burmese
  • Byzantines
  • Celts
  • Chinese
  • Cumans
  • Ethiopians
  • Franks
  • Goths
  • Huns
  • Incas
  • Indians
  • Italians
  • Japanese
  • Khmer
  • Koreans
  • Lithuanians
  • Magyars
  • Malay
  • Malians
  • Mayans
  • Mongols
  • Persians
  • Portuguese
  • Saracens
  • Slavs
  • Spanish
  • Tatars
  • Teutons
  • Turks
  • Vietnamese
  • Vikings

0 voters

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too early to tell since we haven’t seen much done post recent balance changes. but it isn’t going to be aztecs, britons, celts, chinese, franks, khmer, lithuanians, mayans, mongols, or vikings.

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This should help the devs pick a civ to buff.

its easy. just look at the pickrate from pros tournaments and buff those civs that never or rarely gets picked. simple as that.

boring when always same civs get picked in tournaments.

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Atm the game is very well balanced. If we consider the standard reference 1v1 Arabia, almost no civ needs a buff, except Italians and maybe Indians.

Italians have almost no bonuses (so the fact that they have the lowest pick rate accordingly to stats is not surprising), while Indians are a bit tricky.

Overall, getting these two civs when playing random is quite rare. In all the other cases, every civ has a good chance to beat all the others…


the point is, we don’t have a whole lot of data, there is reasons they went to quarterly balance patches. its because most civs are reasonably balanced, and we don’t need constant changes.

Saracens, Spanish, Italians and Indians, these civs are the most civs need help

why saracens? they are a good middle of the road civ.

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They are the only civ that don’t have any eco/military bonus except their market, and you can’t take the advantage of the market in the whole game, it is only useful in early feudal/castle.

which is a HUGE bonus, whether you like to think about it or not.

bullcrap, it literally nets them extra gold when selling resources in Imp without having to invest into guilds.
they get 19 gold when selling resources in Imperial age (assuming they are bottomed out), as opposed to the 14 others get without guilds, which is an increase of 35.7% resources over other civs. and if those civs invest into Guilds, they literally have to pay 200 gold for that and it only brings them up to 17 gold, which means they are getting 3 extra gold per 100 resources sold, and had to invest 200 gold to get that (which would take 67 times of selling 100 food or wood just to pay back that 200 gold, not to mention the food cost).


And they don’t have any discounts on their eco/military upgrade/units like any other civ and their UU is the most expensive UU in the game

most civs don’t get discounts on their units, and those that do, don’t really have great eco bonuses.
berbers get discounted units, but no real eco bonus (10% faster moving vills is laughable).
byzantines get 1 bonus and it doesn’t happen until you kick up to imp.
portuguese get very slightly faster techs.
koreans get stone mining bonus which is useless from a military perspective for the most part and one of the worst eco bonuses in the game.
the one civ who gets a great eco and discounts is Mayans and they have minimal options and fall off hard in the late game.

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Saracens have a good tech tree, a versatile market bonus (despite it is not game winning), and a very useful bonus for archers.

Clearly not top tier, but considering how bad Italians and Indians are, I would not say Saracens are the civ needing a buff. Still a buff would not hurt.

This is two bonuses and you should count both:

  • One is better overall market efficiency through the entire game
  • The other is a cheaper Feudal Age Building

Leave the first bit for a second, because that’s a lategame bonus. The Saracens market discount is equivalent to the Huns no-house discount at 8 houses. Huns start 100 wood down and each house costs 25 wood. 8 houses is 45 pop. Meaning, on Arena (or a similarly defensible map) with a fast castle build, the Saracens have a better wood bonus than the Huns. That means fewer vills needed on wood (or more farms and TC’s) and that’s not a bonus to just toss.

Not to mention, having a cheaper market means it’s less expensive to just drop one when you need to balance your economy for either a tech switch or for Carto when the map starts to complicate. Don’t underestimate the Market bonuses.


I know their market is so powerful and really good, but you didn’t mention that using the market is not FREE bonus right?! You need to sell/buy goods by other goods, so it is not like any other civ eco/military bonus or not like any discount on eco/military bonus, because you must buy/sell somethings to get what you want right?! And by the time you are using the market more and more it will be less effective

Market abusing is already broken, with Saracens it’s even more.


And what they have except their market if it is broken as you claim?! Don’t tell me we need to nerf their market which is the only (and not free) eco bonus they have?!

Cheaper bonuses aren’t FREE too. You need to have resources to create units. Free bonuses are Persian and Ethiopians if you don’t consider Market bonus isn’t free. (And Celts, Koreans, Turks, Mongols, Britons, Franks, Tatars, Indians)

When it’s going to be less effective you will be already boomed and with free 2x (better than 2x) guilds you can use market much efficient than any other civ (also guilds costs 200 gold, you need to sell a lot of wood and food to justify its cost). That 2 gold a lot when you sell 3000 wood and food with shift click.

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mind reading? :smile:

You didn’t understand what i meant, when you say eco bonus/discount/ free upgrade this is something totally different about using/making/buying/selling things to GET your eco bonus. Saracens use goods to get bonus and this is something not found at any civ at all to get their bonuses. Well at the end i don’t mind to leave the Saracens as they are, but don’t nerf/touch their market

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