I’ve been playing with Mamelukes lately and they always seem to die so fast, so I looked them up on the wiki and realized it’s because most everything has a bonus against them. The most surprising was that skirms get a bonus, which seems silly to me. If you look at other ranged melee units, like the Gbeto and throwing axeman, neither have archer armor class. So why do Mamelukes? They already have 0 pierce armor, so ranged units counter them fine as-is.
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I guess it was that back in the Age of King times Mamelukes had 0 frame delay so they thought it was a good idea. But at least bloodlines and zealotry more than make up for this (even tho it’s outrageously expensive)
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It is simply outrageous that Mamelukes need to be kept in the Archer class just to be "Balanced"
There has to be a better way. 
Mamelukes need counters. They destroy cavalry. If you remove that anti archer counter, nothing could really counter them.
They are one of the most damaging units in terms of DPS in the game and are quick and agile, and the bane to elephants. This unit does not need any buffs. If your unit can easily stop a war elephant, you don’t really need any more buffs.
Mamelukes are the bane to the Persians. If they could even counter them with their already awful Skirmishes, which are missing bracer. What unit could the Persians use to counter the Mamelukes cost-effectively? Before you say archers, Persians didn’t always have no gold costing archers.
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I’m guessing that bomber hit it on thd head. Thry need some sort of counter.
Mameluks are just fine as they are, situational yes but fine
I understand what you say…I really do
All i’m frustrated about is the fact that the archer weaknesses artificially given to Mamelukes make them effectively a standard Cavalry archer unit when they should play as strictly as a cavalry unit in terms of counters.
Instead of artificially giving the archer class to them, why not just lower 20-30 HP or fire rate for example??
They could have a niche of being the first ever fast ranged unit(other than cheat Cobra car) that’s not weak to Skirms
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Thry are fine as is, why does it need to be changed?
I already wrote why it needs to be changed
Because : archer weaknesses artificially added on to Mamelukes make them effectively a standard Cavalry archer unit
While they could be a much more interesting unit by being the first fast ranged unit(other than cheat Cobra car) that’s not weak to Skirms
That is why I would love to see their other base stats decreased, rather than them being turned into another generic cavalry archer version essentially.
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The Saracens are one of the most advanced Civilizations in the game. they are a jack of all trades. If you are only making Mamelukes and expect them to carry the game for you then you’re doing something wrong. The Saracens are not the best 1 vs 1 civilisation. They excel in team games with lots of trade due to their cheaper markets.
In short, they are late game. Boomer civ. They are not designed to rush. Since they don’t have any economic bonuses other than cheaper markets.
And they literally have had the archer armor class since aok days without issue.
Why change it now?
You’re literally changing stuff just to change it.
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I totally agree about that, Saracens is as you describe
But this is about the Mamelukes, they could be 60 base HP and 2.4 fire rate instead of 2.0, and lose the archer armor class
That would be fairly balanced if you think about it, a nerf smilar to SL
This would be amazing because : Mamelukes would be the fast ranged only unit in the game that wreck skirms and halbs, rather than just being another cavalry archer (even though it’s not actually a cavalry archer) unit that’s hard countered by skirms.
Ofcourse with only 60 base HP, and slower fire rate they would not be as effective as before in other situations and die to castle fire/xbows easily.
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So again. Why? You’ve literally just taken a balanced unit and made it weaker, nerfing a civ which was just balanced.
All because you don’t like it having the archer class?
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No it’s not necessarily weaker, it will lose the skirm counter, and Mamelukes will be much harder to counter after this change, they will behave like actual ranged cavalry, not cavarchers.
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But that makes them too weak in some other ways. Just leave them having weakness to anti archers. They are themselves basically horse archer that does melee damage. Horse archers that do melee are deadly units. And top of that they do bonus damage to cavalry.
Mamelukes one of most hated units to face against when I want to play Persians.
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Really?..
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If you’re losing mamelukes to huskarls yours doing something wrong.
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Oh yes , ofcourse
But it is a fact that Mamelukes are CAVALRY not CAVARCHERS
Don’t try to make them into Cavarchers for no reason, when there are a hundred other ways of balancing them
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That’s what we said out loud when we saw you suggesting changing the Mameluke.
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Except you’re the one trying to change them. Not us.
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