Why are people making arguments to nerf elephants? Everything from increasing their population space cost, and other ridiculous nerfs. Like… just why? They are terrible units. They require massive amounts of farms and trade carts to maintain production. They are only team units. They need key support units like longbowmen and handcannons to keep halberdiers away from them.
And even then, elephants are only seen in long drawn out boomer games mostly. Not rush-rush arabia open maps.
I repeat, elephants are only seen in long boomer games. Where everyone plays peaceful farmville with each other, and allows the Persians to mass a very expensive hoard of elephants. And yet… you want each elephant to cost 2 pop or something?
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That reminds me, I forgot to mention a few techs in the Universal Techs Thread:
-Elephant Gun: Gunpowder units +50 attack vs Elephant units.
-Hunting Trophies: Every elephant you kill is taken back to the barracks, where it’s taxidermied and improves the morale of nearby troops, granting +1 attack.
-Ivory Poaching: You receive 200 gold for each enemy elephant killed.
-Exotic Banquet: Killed enemy elephants provide an enormous amount of food (4800). Thanks to @PanCalvus for crunching the numbers on this.
/s
Maybe I’ve missed something, but I don’t recall any recent threads where people have earnestly asked to nerf elephants. 90+% of the suggestions I’ve seen were from people who seemed intent on buffing them.
TBF the thread about Eles costing more pop was not super clear/well presented, but as I understood it, the OP wanted to buff ele stats significantly under the theory that making them cost more pop would make them viable in 1v1s without being overpowering in TGs. Again, not well presented, and I can understand people seeing the thread as wanting to nerf eles since the OP mostly focused on the increased pop cost and not on the implied compensatory buffs.
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The point is to nerf the pop space so other stats can be buffed.
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In compensation you give them a massive buff
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They would need double HP.
I am gonna delete my own elephants
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No, they would need their cost reduced, and their speed increased, amongst other potential things. HP is not one of them. They certainly don’t need double HP.
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You will ruin elephant spam games which is boring. Elephants are already terrible units they do not need to cost extra population.
If you reduce their cost, then you will need less vils to spam…
The goal of all these threads is make them viable for 1v1 while keep them the same for tg. Why you hate this idea so much?
It’s ridiculous that the unit is literally only viable in the kind of settings you play, and to fix it so it’s playable elsewhere, it needs to be cheaper, and move faster, and die a bit less hard to halbs. And to balance this, it may need the pop consumption increased.
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Leave it as a team only unit. Simple as.
I like having a horde of elephants. Can’t have a horde if they cost 2 pop.
You’re excluding all of the 1v1 playerbase for your niche map/gamemode preferences? That’s really not fair, you don’t need a horde of elephants.
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I think increasing the pop of the unit isnt the answer. Just increase the speed a little bit or reduce the bonus damage from halbs alone will make the unit stronger. There was a point in time where khmer were using them in 1v1. Yeah rhey were too strong but think of all the nerfs they took sincd then
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Maybe because eles are mostly TG units?, and in 1v1 Monks are a thing?
Why is the desesperation to make eles viable in 1v1? less bonus damage? Bengalis are already here to show that don’t help that much?, faster speed,? Khmer already showed to disastrous is the extra speed (Outrunning xbows without Husbandry was silly), Cheaper? Then not only Malay would need a nerf to offset that, the other eles can end up being OP (esp Khmer with the eco or even Burmese with the extra armor). Better ask for a cheaper elite upgrade and better trample damage because 25% trample damage is a joke.
We seriously need to stop asking to make every unit viable in all settings (Eg Eagle Warriors are already too strong in 1v1, so we should make them buffed for TGs where they are terrible?)
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Honestly with the reduced stats elsewhere id like to see giving then a small speed increase tested to see how it goes.
That said, im completely fine with elephants being a mostly team game unit. Not every unit needs to be used in every situation
Why not look for making most units viable in most cases to bring different play styles?
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Because that’s a good way to make the game less diverse and boring, and then some units end up being overpowered to justify that.
Absolutely. I sorta kinda get the logic of chonky units taking up multiple pop spaces (in other games mainly), but…you can just improve the unit in a couple small ways that make it somewhat more viable in 1v1s without needing to change essential mechanics of the unit in order to justify your buffs. Even a stronger BE won’t necessarily be the go-to unbeatable unit in TGs. I’d like to see more units become more viable in more situations, but trying to make all units equally useful in 1v1s and TGs is a futile endeavor.
Also, I don’t really like the can of worms that multi-pop eles opens up. Should siege weapons become 5 pop to account for those transporting, loading and firing them? Should ships become 10 pop to account for the crews?
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How make more units viable could make the game less diverse?
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