Why do Mayans have Blast Furnace?

All things considered, to make up for their superb economy and archer lines, Mayans are supposed to get a worse than average infantry line, hence the lack of Champ upgrade. But they still have the best eagles in the game, and FU halbs, in practical terms, nothing really stops Mayans from playing on full infantry.

In fact, I’d argue that currently their infantry play (eagles/halbs transition in castle/imp) is stronger than that of Aztecs even, the supposedly infantry meso civ, that lacks Ring Archer Armor AND Thumb Ring, to compensate for their “good eco” (not that good anymore) and “great infantry” - lacking halb.

So Mayans get the best archers AND the best eagles AND FU halbs.

Why? If anything, Incas are supposed to be the “well rounded” meso civ, not Mayans, that currently are basically stronger incas and aztecs in every department.

Why shouldn’t they lose Blast Furnace, it’s not like it will impact the ability of their halbs VS cav, and their eagles would keep the “tanky meatshield” theme.


True it doesn’t make much sense why most meso civs are that overpowered.


I think this could be reasonable but i also think this nerf would have a relatively minor impact on Mayan dominance and would be the wrong place to target to nerf them.


Never thought about this one but I actually like it. Take blast furnace away, make longer lasting res only +10% and the civ should be well balanced.

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Elite eagles only have 9 base attack, which is actually super low for an imperial age gold unit (it’s the same as a longsword!). So without blast furnace it would have the same base attack as a hussar (but less dps cuz 2.0 attack speed instead of 1.9) and only +1 attack over a halberdier, which is absolutely trash. So this mostly makes the civ even more one dimensional for no good reason (no their late game isn’t better than the Inca one lol)


Tbh halbs attack slower

As stated above, blast furnacd comes in imperial and even there not as first upgrade, so the impact on mayans would be rather low.

Anyway, i agree with the openers proposal, but out of a different reason:
Imperial blacksmith upgrades should be something rare and special. Only civs that are specialized in something should have fully upgraded units there. At the moment, things are nearly the opposite. It is seen as a weakness for a civ, if a single blacksmith upgrade is missing. If imperial blacksmith upgrades are rare, it would give diversity. Lithuanians with the relics to compensatr blast furnace are a great example. The civ is one of my favorites since that nerf, because their playstyle is so cool now.

Considering this, i see no reasons for mayans to keep blast furnace and agree to thevproposal.


That would be an horrible idea as if your civ just so happens to specialize in the wrong unit type, then you’re dead because all your other units are bad. Heck if no one has a good tech tree then is there diversity?


I agree with the concept of removing techs from the Mayan tech tree so that Incas won’t be ‘Mayans-but-worse’ anymore.

Blast furnace could be a good call, maybe.
There’s a danger in nerfing their infantry that you could make them much worse in 1v1 or in some specific 1v1 matchups whilst leaving them still really strong in eg team games.

Also, Mayans have good archers and infantry to compensate for their absolutely atrocious cavalry. Their cavalry is the absolute worst in the game. Even worse than Aztec and Inca, because they can’t get redemption.
PS: Aztecs have excellent monks, and +10% creation speed helps a lot with eagles.

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In fact halbs without blast furnace need 1 more hit to kill cavalry.
And I said before, nerf archer discount, nerf longer lasting res, raise El Dorado cost up, nerf elite plumes range and also increase eagle food cost from 20 to 30 is enough (if not the bare minimum). :saluting_face:


Maybe all of it wouldn’t even be needed, I would just nerf the longer lasting resources and the Plumes’ range and discount as those are what make the civ truly OP.

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one thing that has always bugged me is that discounted unit are more often than not not FU. like the goths infantry, of malay elephantos, or berbers cav which lacks paladin. instead, mayans have everything and the discount. so following that, instead of blast furnace they could lose last armor upgrade for archers. I don’t know if it would be an overnerf tough


Good to us that neither any of you is on balance team. Such awful ideas :zipper_mouth_face:

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Yeah I like a lot the idea. I am for this nerf 100%

Still Mayans need a bigger nerf, this should be only one part of that change


Blast Furnace for Mayans is only for the Eagles
Still 100 HP eagles are worth it even with -2 attack
But I think that the issue with Mayans are in the archers and walls discounts


Never understood why mayans of all 3 meso civs should have the best eagles. It would be more fitting if incas get the 100hp eagles and mayans the inca eagles…

This way every civ has at least some unique strength unlike now, where incas are pretty much trash.


Incan eagles are better vs archers.


The Mayans Eagles need to be kind of good against infantry
I think that is why the 100 HP
IMO that was the plan from the devs 20 years ago but in the current meta with the eco bonus and the archers discount the f****** Mayans Eagles are OP; one of the best accessible Post-Imperial units in the game, before the gold runs out you always find them in game

Would you like to give a counter-argument instead of being needlessly insulting?

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The biggest travesty is the best eagles in the game.

But I’ll gladly take the blast furnace nerf. As others pointed out, it doesn’t hurt them that much, but that’s exactly the point. If it doesn’t hurt them that much it should be easier to remove the tech AND still nerf them slightly else where (the archer discount or Resource longevity)

Someone can correct me, but I think losing BF hurts them the most in trash on trash fights (but mega skirms should be clearing opposing pike/halb anyway) and eagle v cav?

Eagles’ll kill Vils just as quickly, and roughly the same for siege, and you shouldn’t be fighting champs with eagles or halbs anyway.

Goths/Malians will always be a problem late game anyway, but statistically Mayans beat Goths before then.

this doesn’t make sense. If anything they most definitely have the best Meso cavalry because they lack redemption.

But by removing BF you force them to use the units in their specific roles instead of so freely as generalists.

Compare to for example Malians and their low dps Pikes outside of their specific role. (For example a rare match where I’ve demolished Malian pikes with a few burmese halbs)