You don’t want others to claim what “people” want then did the same.
For “most players” the game has no real value compared to other more modern and more popular games if it is NOT about the historical representation.
Coming up next: an Avatar: The Last Airbender campaign is still East Asia theme
The “people care more about gameplay than history” excuse only thrived after WE started throwing history into trashcan. Curious.
*Lazy design choice. The map could be moved, like in Longshanks’ campaign.
I would assume that people that bought a game about the Middle Ages would like Middle Ages content.
You can get good or bad quality no matter what. Not a relevant point.
That’s exactly also why I don’t like too much the tournament scene, especially their reaction to 3K content.
If you’re playing a historical game and don’t care about the history, what’s the point? WE should stop trying to appeal to those people.
Lol! But I actually had an idea for an Avatar-themed clone of AoE2 when I was a kid, and part of the idea included what we would now call a Grand Campaign covering the events of the show.
Maybe they are?………..
They still wanted to cover it all, but having to pack so much within 6 scenarios meant taking shortcuts. At least we avoided the ahistorical 7th scenario that was supposed to be the conquest of the HRE and France, didn’t happen thanks to Ogedei finding out the hard way that polish vodka isn’t apple cider.
The Golden Horde lasted longer than the Yuan who quickly sinicised anyway (after Kublai you could fully portray them as Chinese who also happen to recruit Mangudai with some requirements) so taking more from them isn’t a big red flag. As for mainly focusing in Europe, it’s to avoid going back to China all the time due to only having 6 scenarios, making it a one-and-done instead of having to wait until Kublai finishes the job. Putting the spotlight on Ogedei instead.
But yes a remake on a bigger scale would be very welcome. Portraying the invasion of China (and not like in AOE4 with a third of the campaign camping around Kaifeng…) and Subotai’s Great Raid properly, notably.
Well WE still came up with (made up out of thin air) the excuse of “3K are technically medieval” to justify their inclusion. So at least they still don’t want to discard that superficial decency (for now).
There’s also the fact the 3K civs aren’t based on the Three Kingdoms period, they’re based on the historical fantasy book written centuries after the fact. So they are both Non-Medieval and Non-Historical, two ways they don’t fit AoE2.
Not to mention a bunch of their units and wonders are not from either the period or the book.
Where I come from we call that “copy-pasting assets”. A good narrative is found in… The narrative (dialogues, cutscenes, decisions), not in reusing maps.
The Britons also have four dedicated scenarios, and they still have a campaign. The Vikings have more than four, shouldn’t they have a campaign too?
If they added a story line to connect those Japanese scenarios — for example, a scholar hired to educate the heir of a shogun or daimyo, recounting Japan’s history and the warriors of each era — then it mignt be able to argue that it would essentially function as a campaign. They would still need one or two additional scenarios, with the final one focusing on a war involving the heir’s father or one fought after the heir’s succession.
In the same way, the Vikings’ scenarios could technically be tied together through a saga. However, I still think that would be quite a negative solution and not something that should be expected. The design of the V&V scenarios is already highly atypical, so the inconsistency in scenario styles could also be a drawback for a campaign.
We discovered early on that it was very realistic for its time, and so it fits naturally alongside medieval history.
I know I’ve shared this before, but I still strongly want to recommend the following…
Xiao Yanyan (Khitans) & Yuanhao (Tanguts):
After the Khitangut split, their campaigns could each be narrated by their sons, creating a sharp contrast in parent-child relationships.
Xiao Yanyan, mother of Emperor Shengzong of Liao dynasty, reigned as regent while her son was still young. The formidable Queen Mother personally governed the empire, laying the foundations for its golden age. She led her own ordo cavalry into battle, commanding respect on both the court and the battlefield. Her campaign features fierce defenses against Song invasions, the conquest of Jeongan (successor to Balhae) and a successful invasion of the Song alongside her now-grown son, Shengzong. The stoty concludes with Shengzong’s invasion of Goryeo, carried out on the strength of the powerful empire his mother left behind.
Li Yuanhao, aka Weiming Yuanhao, was the founding emperor of Xi Xia. When he was the prince of the Tangut state, he had fought against the Uyghurs, the Tibetans, and the Han and Sogdian forces of the Kingdom of Guiyi. After ascending the throne, he reformed the state, emphasized military innovation, and established a fully independent empire. He launched a prolonged war against the Song dynasty and repelled a Khitan invasion from the Liao. Though he ultimately achieved a costly victory, his increasingly warlike and ruthless nature made him both feared and despised — and in the end, he was assassinated by his own son.
Wuzhu (Jurchen) & Yue Fei (Chinese):
Their stories would form a rivalry similar to William Wallace vs. Edward Longshanks or Joan of Arc vs. the Good Philip. However, unlike those, since the Jin dynasty of Jurchens later relied heavily on Han Chinese soldiers, their story could even be told from the perspective of a Jurchen officer (descended from one of Wuzhu’s subordinates) recounting it to his Han troops.
The story would begin with Wuzhu’s campaign, depicting his youth following his elder brother Wolibu, joining his father Aguda’s cause to overthrow Khitan rule, and invade northern China with exploiting the Song dynasty’s foolish and shortsighted decisions. After his brother’s death, he inherits command, crosses the Yangtze River in pursuit of the fleeing Song prince, sacking cities along the way and cementing his reputation as a formidable and feared leader.
Next, the story would continue with Yue Fei’s campaign, as the officer recounts the rise of the hero on the other side — the son of a poor peasant who starts as a soldier defending the capital, helps allies defend the River, rises to general, and leads the Northern Expeditions. Along the way, he becomes a leader cherished and honored by his people and comrades, and becomes a rival who commands both fear and respect among the Jurchens. Yet, despite his achievements, he must once again confront the Song court’s foolish and shortsighted decisions.
The final scenario could depict the aftermath of these stories, as the officer and his troops must now defend against the Mongol invasion of Jin — just as the Song once faced invasion by the Jurchens — showing how history always repeats itself.
Ok
So we should get rid of ranked and the whole competitive/ tournament scene?
Why not?… Many games aren’t competitive, and competitive games is what push AoE2DE away from preservation, and not always in a better way.
Given the damage I have seen this scene do to other games I am involved with…I’d love to.
Age Divers, a coop pve competitive gamemode
