Why Ottomans destroy Delhi 7 to 3 skill for skill

Let’s get straight to it. Ottomans beat delhi on open landmaps due to design choices.

Ottomans get free military units and has stronger units than delhi to include feudal healing… meanwhile delhi gets free upgrades but those upgrades take too long AND delhi canNOT optimally go 2 TC on an open land map soon enough to actuate it’s free upgrades bonus effectively. This forces delhi to force feudal military mass which it will never do better than Ottomans…gg

Outside nerfs to the spahi… delhi needs a viable way to generate stable feudal eco. And/or a safer path into fastle castle to then tap into cheap keeps which will eventually funtion as additional TCs.

Alternative to making delhi have more early eco is to make delhis elephantos both cheaper!!! The tower elephant for example, after suffering much needed nerfs is TOO expensive IMO. Given the tower elephant the War Elephant treatment will SLIGHLTY return a playstyle where delhi would fast castle into tower elephants…a bit scary to go back i know, but it would allow for the featured unit to return slightly to glory.

In another thread i sugested Dome of Faith be changed in several ways to accommodate it lackluster performance and longevity by comparison to TOV. Highlights being make DOF provide a flat research speed buff across the board and or give scholars the ottoman heal aura and or something simple like make all scholars built in any mosque cost 65-75g But only take 15-20s to train (this would be huge for research since healing is broken in combat).

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First screenshot is of platinum +

Next are diamond+ then conq

IMO its unplayable and extremely demoralizing. I try to surprise ottoman with a Drush to deny their gold or at least their first stone…but if that fails…well the game was already lost so?

Because each Civ has different bonuses to be unique, certain mechanics while innovative may have flaws.

In general, for balance, most Civ have certain characteristics in common, (Curiously I made a post about it (Factors that all civs have in common - "Help guide to create new concept of new Civs")). In general, the issue that concerns here is economics:

  • Almost all Civs have one or two economic bonuses in collecting resources, which can be either a boost or gain in the form of collecting resources, passive gain from them, or discounts.

  • In the case of the English, the farms, the French, their villagers are produced quickly, the Chinese have the imperial officer. Delhi is unique, because instead of bonuses, its bonus is that all its technologies, including the economic bonus ones, are free. The Ottomans have free units and with bosting in their production.

  • The problem with the technological bonus of Delhi, although it benefits the early game, in post-imperial where the rest of Civ has not only the basic economic technologies, but adds it to their own bonuses, the “Passive” economic bonuses of Delhi are almost non-existent .

  • In fact, Delhi only has 2 passive economic bonuses: unique technology “Hearty Rations”, which increases the load of the villagers by +5, and the Landmark “Hissar School” which gives them free food. But that’s all, and on top of that they are optional, since they are Landmark’s choice.

  • In general, Delhi compensates for its lack of economy in post-imperial with powerful war elephants, which since the 4th season “are profitable”, and even living tanks. However, yes, that also creates a problem for them, since the Ottomans have a counter-unit for their elephants: The Janissary.

  • On the other hand, and as you say, in feudal Delhi is vulnerable due to lack of 4th extra military unit, both to the rush of early men-at-arms or early knights from various Civs, not just Ottomans.

Delhi is strong, but the factor that they are weak in Feudal and the Janissary factor in Castles and Imperial makes them weak to the Ottomans.


As it pertains to the otto vs delhi matchup. Delhi will “gg go next” skill for skill if ottoman doesnt try any funny business and goes straight into military schools and military production. So delhi will get cooked long before they could get rolling and definitely won’t make it into Imperial on an open map at decent levels of play skill for skill? Never.

I wish aoe4world.com would bring back personal and global game length PER civ matchup. That would shed some light on how quickly ottoman gets going vs delhi and when are games decided. (I know from memory delhi really gets going after 15min IFFF they can hold sites… meanwhile I’m pretty sure ottoman can keep a steady lead over delhi starting at the 8min mark with schools and vizors).

Alternative saving grace for delhi that would not disrupt their identity would be slight COMBAT buff to scholars such as 2 inherent range resist, heck make it a dark age upgrade as that would incentive multi mosque builds/dome of faith.

HRE is a basic civ with barely anything unique. They have the least amount of unique units and techs as well as abilities/mechanics. This civ only exists around their landmarks with a wonky prelate that is not even worth including in your army, although the civ is supposed to be built around that holy inspiration fact. The landmarks govern everything for this civ, because the basic civ of HRE just offers close to nothing.

While what you say should be true, it just is not true for HRE. There is barely any resemblence of the actual civ, nothing that stands out and does not get severely hardcountered by building crossbows, mechanics that do not work well, they have the worst units, only one unique upgrade in imp and that’s for buildings… This civ only exists because of Aachen and Burgrave, either one of these two landmarks is responsible for a HRE victory. HRE at best is semi-unique, because the landmarks (and age II is not even a choice) overshadow all the shortcomings. HRE can neither beat Ottoman nor French, because their units are just too bad. Mehter, Sipahi and Janis counter everything HRE can do and French has the upper hand from the start due to knights and completely demolish with Arbaletriers, against which HRE cannot field anything that is remotely cost effective. And that is true for the rest of the game, there is nothing HRE can aim for composition wise to gain the upper hand. There is only mangos, which are slow, expensive and susceptible to… oh my… knights. I do not get the Arbaletrier anyway. A unit without any downside, it’s not even more expensive or slower, has more armor than most heavy melee units, but is not tagged as heavy, shoots faster, has a very strong use ability and laughs at their counters. Horsemen do nothing to them. And then look at the Landsknecht. One billion downsides for some aoe dmg. A unit that is so far from being cost efficient that you can only build it if you are ahead, but not if you wanna get ahead. It’s more or less useless.

The last patches benefitted some civs and ignored others, but no civ was ignored like HRE. Delhi once was their best match up (for the worst reasons) and now HRE struggles against them, but hasn’t gained any advantage anywhere as compensation. There is no good match up for HRE anymore. Maybe English, but it’s an okay match up at best. And maybe China, unless they get a good age III eco going and can reach imp. HRE can’t beat anything in lategame, especially not Chinese, because HRE doesn’t have a lategame aside from massing inferior units and building towers.

I am probably the big minority, but I do not want new civs. Not as long as the civs we have do not have comparable levels of uniqueness and power. Right now there is quite an imbalance. The problem, however, is that pretty much all civs have in-depth uniqueness, while HRE has only landmarks and offers almost zero variation. And Delhi also doesn’t find any form of peace in regards of their free but slow technologies, because it is so hard to balance. That’s why some things can be solved by fine tuning, others, however, require quite some overhauling.

The game is ready for new civs, when there are no overhauls needed anymore and everything can be solved by fine tuning. The early launch with all the issues is the biggest burden of this game, because it is so hard to recover from a bad launch. New civs can help to revitalize the playerbase, but there is only longevity to be had if every aspect of the game, if every civ inside of the game meets the same standards of quality.