Why the Franks shouldn't be nerfed

They made Bearded Axe cheaper as compensation. It usually makes sense for the Imp UT to be more expensive than the Castle Age UT.

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I’m also not sure if this is a nerf in the end, it might improve franks actually because many players still don’t know how strong TA are. I frequently make TA after an archer opening with franks, it’s such a nice followup, as the opponent often just expects knights.

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Not sure about the TA as a mainline unit in general (very effective against Goths), but it works wonders in thinning out pikemen numbers :slight_smile:

Thats your opinion, but its probably wrong. Dont take this from me. Take it from the absolute legend of RTS who won several SC-Titles, worked as a caster for years and helped design many RTS: Day9 is currently trying to learn AoE2 and he plays exclusivly franks to get a grasp of the game.

They are good against a lot of units so I would make them a part of my army.

so they aren’t scouting and getting crushed by something they don’t see coming. seems like bad play to me.

they are a good support unit but not something to make as the core of your army.

@BouffantBloom32

Such a weird argument.
A) Civ picking has always been a part of every age game.
B) Every pro level tournament has civ picking. And all pros spend extended time practicing specific strategies and builds for each civ.
C) Going random and just adapting is fine, and that’s your choice to do if you enioy.
D) In the ladder you can chose to pick a civ in case they don’t go random, but set the preference to go random.
E) This game is for all the age of empires 2 fans, not just people with your specific preferences. So stop gate keeping.

Edited for the correct poster.

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Franks don’t need any nerf or buff - Only very low elo players complain.

What are you talking about? I never complained about civ picking. I just say if you want to improve generally above a certain level I think it’s helpful to also play different civs.
Nobody has to believe me, I just wanted to help players to improve.

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PUP has a word to you:
Chivalry and Bearded Axe swapped

I apologize, my post was meant for @BouffantBloom32 not you :slight_smile:

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Actually, I stopped playing treaty games and after doing a fast castle game today as Franks with knights and rams I feel that the Frankish knight rush might be a bit underwhelming and too easy to defend against.

Thinking civ picking Frank’s is killing the game because of a 55% win rate is probably the most over exaggerated thing ever. They just do what they do good and simple. Nothing game breaking like Obsidian arrows, OG cumans or peak Mayans, old farming Slavs. Like its been mentioned someone has to have the highest win rate and just because Frank’s are that civ doesn’t mean they need nerfed. The change they made with their UT are fine because its TGs where they are the cav civ since you need a cav civ whereas 1v1 arabia theres no complementing civ so Frank’s can’t fully go yolo 1 unit. Frank’s have counters with civs and just units, its just Frank’s can gain an early advantage farm bonus, foragers, scout hp and then carry their that with their mobility till the win with their simple game plan. Frank’s is the most played civ so therefore the most experienced means basically everyone knows how to play it well and how games expect so maybe its not just the civ but the fact that people are just better at playing Franks

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:thinking::thinking::thinking: I’d say if the Frank knight rush is underwhelming… then all knight rushes are underwhelming. Frank’s get great eco → free bloodline knights.

  • Berbers eco is nowhere near as good, and the cheaper knight bonus is great but id rather have the early eco and the later tech advantages of Franks.
  • Magyars only have free attack upgrades, which is just a brief power spike. No eco bonus.
  • Huns no house is nice, and faster stables but not a huge eco boost, and Frank’s get faster stables later as well.
  • Lithuanians has to work for relic advantage to start paying off in mid castle, can’t really be called a rush at that point. So 150 food is all that’s going for them.
  • Burgundians. Lol
  • who’d I miss?
    So if Frank’s knight rush is underwhelming, it sounds like we’d need to buff knights in general, which obviously isn’t the case. I’d posit that perhaps you didn’t execute the knight rush optimally.

Franks knight rush is literally the best knight rush in rha game

isn’t it obvious? Because everybody knows it is the best one, everybody expects it and plays preemptively against it. So when you play it, you fall in the trap the opponent laid for you and it’s the worst strat in the game because it is the strongest.
Didn’t got it? Then ask sotl about the spanish archer rush ftw :smiley:

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It is nice but I needed siege in order to finish the game and that’s why I said it’s underwhelming.

You can always set the random option and click mirror. If your oponnet picks, you eliminate the bias.

Not the most fun solution, but a fair one.

You’d need siege period if your opponent didn’t give up a game they were clearly behind by a large margin. Even with otger knights or even using an archer civ.

Yeah any rush will need some siege to win the game. What I like to do if my knight rush is going well is add in some scorpions to deal with pikes, and onagers for the TCs. All situational of course!

But I’d say that for what a knight rush, or knight play is supposed to do in general, Franks do that as well if not better then any other civ.