Wich is why i didn´t take that as a factor and just did the calculation as if japan gather food at the same rate as other civs while hunting
Yeah but that´s japan eco bonus, basically their ONLY eco bonus, if you are complaining about shrines then you should complain about banks, about ports getting up to 4 TC free, about brits getting +20 vills early game, about ottos getting free villagers, i mean, yeah, but that´s why everyone has their eco bonus, now in some cases shrines can be better than some other´s civ eco bonus, but you are just talking about like if the other civs have no eco bonus at all, you say that it doesn´t matter if you are gathering from berries when you have shrines, then i say don´t matter you can´t hunt when you have +20 villagers but you CAN hunt, so, i don´t know.
In treaties maybe. But treaties are dominated by boom civs. The normal team games rarely see japan.
My overall argument is that Japan has too many Upsides and too few Downside.
An early Weakness for Japan seems to be the only downside you (@Moonshadow7475) have mentioned and I don’t believe that Japan is as weak as you say early on.
Even if we did agree that Japan has a bad early game then it would still have too many Upsides past 10mins.
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I only play supremacy and Japan is not under or over represented in team games. It seems we will find no common ground. I appreciate your input on this forum though.
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At my level I hardly see Japan. I only got them once in the last 3 weeks and the game was over in under 8 minutes.
I am not complaining specifically about their eco bonus. You mentioned banks (we have spoken enough about banks already 
) but the Dutch are a boom civ but lack the Musketeer (among other issue) (these are examples of balance).
I’m looking at the Eco, Military Units, ease of use, Amount of Strategies and perks/mechanics. When everything comes together Japan can do most of what other civs can do (do them well) and more, even though they are balanced in each area and in 1v1 sup.
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I play about 3 games a day at least and see Japan once a day at the very least. I play ranked Supremacy or just Supremacy not treaty though
Japan is balanced, not weak. Everyone keeps saying they are op, well they are not.
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Hausa is balanced, not weak. Everyone keeps saying they are op, well they are not.
True. Ethiopia on the other hand…
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I’ve been saying that Japan is balanced (1v1 sup), you have been saying they are weak before 10mins.
We hate Japan because they do everything well and the only time they are “weak” they aren’t even that weak. They are also easy to play on top of that and have all S tier units. It’s not about win rate or how much they are played.
They are balanced in the overall grand timeline of the game. They are weak in early game. Strong in mid, balanced in late. This is the result of asymmetrical civ design. Stop putting text in my paragraphs.
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One of the things that makes Japan too powerful are Daimyos. This unit seems to have no limitations and that is wrong.
I don’t hate this civilization. But it is always the one that frustrated me the most to win in the legacy game and in DE. Only the intense early attack works for me.
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the Africans are broken , but anywhore Moonshadow are just being a troll or do you actually believe japan is balanced?
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BUT SCREW JAPAN AFTER TONIGHT ALL THE AFRICAN CIVS CAN GO DIE IN A HOLE. they are so broken I’m actually done with this game till it fixed
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Give me one thing about Japanese eco thats better than that of European civs, which also cant be compensate for by those other civs.
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Hmm yes, they are easy to play in a basic level but they are one of the hardest civs if you want to play them really well; what i mean is that if you are new to the game is a relatively easy civ, i dont think the easiest but is easy, because of the shrines that provide a flexible and easy-to-handle eco, so if you´re new, you can have good results by not being that experienced, but if you are experienced, not necessarily pro, and you play relatively well, then it is one of the hardest civs to master, because of how complicated some mechanics and bonuses are, and that its total power is fragmented in so many sources and places that to get to the total power you have to manage so many and different things…
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They are not, they still pretty OP in team games. For 1v1 they OK
No balance is considered for team game in DE, never, even treaty can be considered.
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