Worst balance changes

Which one of the following is the worst balance change suggestion in your opinion?

  • Indians: receive (elite) battle elephants but lose halberdier
  • Cumans: Can build more than 1 town centers in feudal age
  • Incas: Kamayuks rate of fire decrease (e.g. 2.0 -> 2.2)
  • Portuguese: units now return their gold cost upon death
  • Mongols: (elite) mangudai loses attack bonus against siege
  • Lithuanians: relic attack bonus no longer affects (elite) leitis
  • Khmer: farmers deposit food at intervals (instead of trickling)
  • Turks: receive elite skirmisher
  • Slavs: elite boyar +1 PA (for a total of 4)

0 voters

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Indians losing Halb does nothing to them, since Camels is their go to anti cavalry.
Cumans building extra TCs is a mixed bag because you have to turtle harder if you go for it.
not sure why Kamayuks need a nerf.
Khmer would be a feasible nerf.
Lithuanians - they rarely use Leitis in my experience so this nerf doesn’t do much.
Mongols this is a feasible nerf.
Portuguese - are you talking 100% refund? that would be a huge buff, incredibly OP.
Slavs - Boyar are already incredibly tanky against archers, why do they need more?
Turks - this is actually a reasonable buff.

Ports or Indians would easily be the worst
Indians because its an unfair trade (you’re giving them an entire unit line in exchange for a unit they rarely use) and Portuguese because its blatantly overpowered.

giving Indians Elephants is also contentious because one of a few reasons.

  1. either you just give them Elephants and no bonuses for them - and the people who believe Indians should have the best Elephants get upset. also bonus less Elephants aren’t that great, so it comes across as an empty gesture.
  2. you give Indians bonuses for the Elephants - which involves an entire redesign of the civ and you’re confusing people and you’re opening the flood gates to “redesign x civ for accuracy” complaints, and balance is a mess while you rebalance first Indians and then other races.

cumans can already build more than 1 tc in feudal, so i dont know what balance change youre suggesting, if you mean removing that, it will remove cuman’s identity it’s a ridiculous suggestion

but even more ridiculous is portuguese returning gold cost upon death, that’s just ridiculous, from here this isnt a serious discussion

he’s saying instead of cumans being able to go from 1 tc to 2 tc in feudal. they be able to make 3 or 4 or even 5 if they desire.

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You can’t remove halbs to indians, otherwise there is no unit capable to counter its own units, remember to balance something first it has to be capable of counter itself, that is why camel has bonus vs mameluke and several other similar things.

I kind of hate the Lithuanians one. If anything I’d like their cavalry attack bonus be more consistent & guaranteed…

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Malians already has that

Lithuanians are fine

Ports and Indians are the worst two as Mat said.

Portugese have a 100% win rate in KOTD3! They’re already OP! Haha JK. But seriously 100 gold refund is an awful, game breaking, idea.

Indians is less bad, but still would make a very good team game civ even more OP. Best solution? Devs release a new (maybe more then 1) indian civ. India is a massive sub-continent with a rich history, I think it warrants more then one civ. Otherwise accept the fact that this isn’t a historical simulator and enjoy that India is a powerful civ, just not necessarily in arabia 1v1.

Mongal change is unnecessary. Sure Mangadi are strong. But the mongol civ in itself is by no means OP.

Cuman change I don’t think would actually be bad (meaning for the Cuman player it wouldn’t be good). The 1 extra TC is already hard to utilize. Add more and your just adding even more feudal investment when your enemy is going Castle and getting tech advantages.


I also think the Cuman’s isn’t really broken. Don’t quite see the point of dropping more TC unless you want tons of resources with negligible military force…
It’s still a bad idea though, for how useless it might turn out to be

In 1v1 it wouldn’t be that strong unless on fortress. The only problem is TG in maps like BF, fortress, arena, where you could be the pocket. It sucks there can’t be TG balance and 1v1 balance so it makes civs more balanced in both settings. There are many 1v1 buffs that would be OP in team games so you can’t implement it sadly.

So many terrible proposals. I can’t decide on which one is worst :joy:


Sorry what is the point of this thread?

Are you proposing these ideas and want people to pick the worst one? Or did you pick other peoples ideas and now you’re parading them?

Im tending to think this is the later by looking at your responses…

For the record: the Portuguese one was mine lol
I suddenly had that idea one time and shared it without a second thought. Oh boy how I really didn’t think it through


As much as I want indiands BE, removing halberdiers as a compensation is nothing. I go for the indians one as the worst.

I don’t understand why the Indians one gets so many votes. I feel like both BE and halb don’t really matter for Indians. It might be somewhat unbalanced in some situations. In contrast some of the other proposals completely ruin fun mechanics, or make a civ cuman-style broken.

Honestly, that’s true

They have cheaper villagers, so the food eco is indirectly better

Probably because that’s the one people are most seriously asking for. I think Portugese idea is worse, but that’s also not something devs would realistically do.

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Losikg halbs doesn’t harm them that much because they already go with imperial camels against cavalry.
But they have arguably the best economic bonus in the game, allowing them to boom while at the same time gather an army. Élite BE would be unstoppable in TG.

The only way I can see the vil discount as it is now mixed with (almost) FU Elite BE in a hyptothetical rework is by making them lack husbandry and really bad archers and skirms, so monks and halb could kind of stop them. But still I wouldn’t be so sure.