Would like your help settling an argument

Interesting that hiding vills isn’t even on that Poll… maybe cause it’s a given that it’s bad sportsmanship.

Feel free to point out if it’s there and I just can’t see it though, it’s late.

I think that No GG is the closest thing to it.

I just don’t understand how someone can get offended by the opponent not saying gg.
Saying gg is mostly for your own mental health by just acknowleding the performance of your opponent and don’t blaming bad map or whatever.
So if your opponent doesn’t says gg it actually just shows he can’t process the loss in a healthy fashion. If you feel offended by that… That’s just stupid. You got the win, you have all right to be happy and proud of yourself. Why do you let your feelings be hurt by somebody who you just beaten that can’t process his loss…
It’s just stupid to feel offended by that, really.
If you do that you give your opponent a “free” compensation victory, cause he is then in your head.

Pursuing winning is a fair point but I think the way you reach it is also important. It does no good either for you or your opponent to win in a way like hiding villagers and wait for disconnection. Everyone plays game for fun, while hours are wasted in searching and hiding and that’s why hide-and-seek exists, not AOE.

I don’t know how many people are happy after they lost a game. Sometimes I might not care about losing but I would not be happy.
There are many behaviors are not enjoyable for your enemy. Many people will resign after getting douched or lamed. I also heard of that people don’t want to fight against hoang rush, so I am sure about that most people don’t care if their enemies can enjoy the game. Anyway, there is no rule to stop people from being mean so we need to accept it and do the things we want.

Have I understood you right?
You say because some people have been mean to you, you want to be mean to other people?
What is this nonsense?

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The way to stop it is to be the bigger person, and model the behavior you want to see. If even just you do it, you improve the experience for your opponents, and make the game more enjoyable for everyone, regardless of winner. And by being respectful and decent for them, you encourage them to do the same for others.

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For me, the question is not whether HE thinks you already lost, but wether YOU think you can still win by killing him. And you didnt mention that.

Your opponent doesnt know your situation very well, maybe you are high on resources and techs, so you just need to prepare raiding from a corner of the map while defending on the other corner.

I feel it is not a “legit victory” in the sense the game seems to have ended due to lack of time from one side… A win is a win, so you are the one who should take the ELO, but you cannot really tell him “I beat you” if he left due to real life business. Even if he would need 10 more hours to beat you.

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I mean lets say i get castle age pushed but can escape in a corner then my mind would tell me that its worth trying and build up again with alot of luck i can hold my old base a bit longer to distract him to launch a counter attack. Eventho its a big set back i would try to come back and fight him

This is were it gets confusing the granture of 2 situation that both get seen equaly but are completly different

Hiding a vill in a corner to prolong the inevatble no but being able to push up build again and try thats worth it

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Well, the fact your opponent was not able to just blast you off the map - which he could, had he truly won the game, no matter the amount of walls - shows he does not have the skill to win the game. If you survive 90 minutes, your opponent is a REALLY bad player and did not earn the win.

However, i hate it when people do this because if you are above 800 elo this just wastes time - not even that much, but still like 10-15min i would rather spend playing the game.

Just get good at finding and killing vills, use Spies, Outposts, scouts, whatever.

Or just spam the map with idle military hotkey and place individual units in a grid more or less at a very rapid pace.

To meet I thought I could still win. He was sending small bands of knights and I would clean them up. Then he would build a big army wipe the base I would get 30 or more vills away start building again finish the last army and then deal with small bands until he makes a big army again.

I just want to state that under 1000 elo most players just don’t have the experience for a good “gg” call. To call gg you need to know you lost.
Sometimes your opponent might even help you there to read the game properly.

And I also know that there are some smurfs there that want to crush low elos but then get upset by them not resigning. That’s what you get if you smurf. It’s usually so, the people who are annoyed and upset the fastest are often the same that try to annoy, upset and push others down.
And I must state I don’t care if I or anybody hurt these peoples “feelings”. They need to grow up.

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Re read all these quotes from you next to each other.

From you this is what I hear:

I hate people who don’t play the game the way I want them to play (to win at all costs)
Those people should be forced to play differently
I can do whatever I want in the game
Deliberately intending to frustrate or offend or waste my opponents time in order to win is fine.

Even if you don’t think this is your perspective, stop and think about how it reads to people who aren’t in your head. Stop and think about that these are actual people who you are playing against - for fun - and that encouraging people to deliberately ruining someone’s game/night/ is going to create a toxic community.

Do you want to create a community where people are deliberately trying to piss you off by any means so you quit?

I do not think “it’s ok, it’s so I can win” is a good enough justification for this.

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Exactly, this is ranked, you will gain or lose something there ( elo and win rate ). In unranked, i dont care.

They can have their strategies but they have to try to win. Yes they have to be force to play for winning or they should not play ranked.

everybody is doing whatever they want. This is an online game with few rules. Nobody knows who you are and people can’t avoid you even if they knew you are completely a noob , going to resign early or team kill them.

I would say there is about 20% people don’t think in this way based on my experience. As i mentioned before, people can do whatever ( strategies ) they want , they don’t care if the people on the other side like getting lamed or doubled. I also saw some people who don’t want to fight in feudal age. You are free to ask them what strategy they don’t like in the beginning. Don’t do those and let them have fun.

No, I don’t , but I can’t force other people to be nice. This is the problem. You can quit it if you don’t like it, but im not a full time player so I won’t totally quit anyway. In ranked games, the primary goal should be winning within the rules. Anything is not in the rules are legit.

You keep saying this as if it is not against the rules. So I am going to be as clear as I can; it is.
First some definitions

Griefing according to wikipedia
" A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game"
And
“To qualify as griefing, a player must be using aspects of the game in unintended ways to annoy other players”

Which you have repeated said you’re fine with

This is not the way the game is intended to be played, waiting for Disconnects or for the opponent to get so frustrated they leave.

Now some quotes of the code’s of conduct on this forum and for aoe2 as a game:
Forums Code of Conduct

DON’T

  • Promote cheating, griefing, or exploits.

From the “Why did I get banned in game” support post for age of empires

“Bans are placed on accounts based on multiple reasons such as inappropriate content, griefing, cheating, inactivity, or verbal abuse.”

I also recommend you read the Age of Empires Code of Conduct that applies to all the aoe games:

Now let me be clear since a number of examples/complaints are made in this thread:

  • Walling in Allies resources and attack ground allies etc is griefing.
  • Resigning ‘early’ might be, if it is used to annoy people.
  • In most cases resigning ‘early’ is not griefing (resigning because you felt the game was going bad is not intending to irritate or harass anyone)
  • Using any strategy within the game intentions is not griefing (Tower rush, TC drop, Hoang)
  • Hiding villagers with the intention to frustrate your opponent or wait for win because of D/C is griefing.
  • Continuing to play by trying to reboom and continue the fight is not griefing, unless you’re doing it with the intention to irritate and harass. As OP is asking.

I believe we actually agree on most of these, but what I am focused on and repeatedly spoke out against is your comments regarding hiding vills, hoping they disconnect, or get too frustrated and resign. Doing this is griefing and more importantly doing this repeatedly is against the rules. So if it is something you do regularly perhaps you should rethink.

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That doesn’t justify being discourteous. AoE2 has been one of the least toxic gaming communities out there before. Please help us try and keep it that way. We all want to have fun playing a great game, don’t ruin the game for others.

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By the definition, you lamed my boar and made some early harassment with units also can be called grieving because you deliberately irritated and harassed me.

Still, it is not my fault if you don’t have time to finish the game. There is no rule says the player in disadvantage should quit after a certain amount of time. How can you judge if a player should quit ?

I doubt GM ban people according to the replays and I think people got banned by system based on the amount of reports.

Although i only played less than 10 MMOs, I can agree with that AOE2 is the least toxic community. Probably it is not RPG which can simulate players’ death so people are less likely to be irritated.
However, it is hardly to get an agreement of toxic behaviors. You think the game is lost, but other people might not think so, and there is no rule about this case. Still, nobody can eliminate toxic behaviors online, especially in a competition game because loss is a negative thing itself.