YAFTTML: Yet Another Fix To The Militia Line

[casusincorrabil]

Oh interesting.
I’m not familiar with AOE3 and it has probably different mechanics.
But how is the feature recieved there?

[SMUM15236]

Should you add Samurai and Jw too? I feel like they are very similar outside of their unique attack bonus.

[Estevao9543]

I’m also curious to know how it works, I don’t play aoe3 and had no idea this was already used.

[KHANATTILA]

@Estevao9543

Militia-line should be a walking shield, meaning they are still slow but incredibly durable. I thought about tying attributes to formations (+ PA in a box formation, + speed in a line formation) so that it would depend on the player, but I don’t know if that’s possible.

This is not in the spirit of Aoe2.

@casusincorrabil

Needs to be thought through, because it’s obviously very dependent on the practical implementation.
I would like to see something which scales up to like 40-50 units in a group - and there should be a radius in which it applies, so it’s not possible to “swarm” your opponent goth spam like and still get the full effect.
I will probably think about that and make a proposal at some point.
BTW: Very good impression, which made me think about my former concept which I now see had some flaws in it.

It is something the devs can experiment with as a unique unit or unique tech, but for the base game it is far too much.

@SMUM15236

Should you add Samurai and Jw too? I feel like they are very similar outside of their unique attack bonus.

I have not had much free time lately, but I had not included the faster infantry units because they should be slightly different.

[KHANATTILA]

@bigbossbro08

Solution 2 is good. But how stagger them across ages through researching tech is something needs to be discussed. We have serious late Feudal, Castle Age problem still to make it worthwhile.

I added such an idea in the initial post.

[FearfulSugar350]

I would fix them like this:
-Man at arm upgrade removed, Militia is instantly upgraded to MAA for free upon aging up.
-Base speed increased to 1.0 (equal to spear line).
-Squire: move to feudal age, costs 75 food.
-Supply: -10 food / -5 gold cost for militia line. Plus cuts infantry’s population cost by 25% (4 infantry units = 3 pop)
-Gambeson: +1m/+1p armor.

[bigbossbro08]

@FearfulSugar350

-Man at arm upgrade removed, Militia is instantly upgraded to MAA for free upon aging up.

It can be a good if you think about Bulgarians. But annoying meta ppl exist and may not want this change

@FearfulSugar350

-Supply: -10 food / -5 gold cost for militia line. Plus cuts infantry’s population cost by 25% (4 infantry units = 3 pop)

Delete Supplies. No upgrade should be 1 unit-line specific.

[NastyHigh]

I dont understand the purpose of increasing the food cost to 55F. Just give them 80HP, no need to make them more expensive.

[SMUM15236]

@KHANATTILA

@SMUM15236

I think you should have added upgrade costs and attack bonuses.

Good idea

I got you.

	Stats	Champion	Legionary	Elite Obuch	Elite Serjeant
	Food Cost	45	60	55	50
	Gold Cost	20	20	20	35
Upgrade Cost	Upgrade Cost (Food)	1475	1050	800	800
	Upgrade Cost (Gold)	730	505	600	675
	Train Time (Seconds)	21	14	12	12
	HP	70	75	95	85
Attack	Base Attack	17	16	14	15
	Vs Eagle	8	8	3	3
	Vs Building	6	6	8	5
	Vs Other		4 vs Infantry
	Reload time	2	2	2	2
	Melee armour	4	6	5	7
	Pierce armour	6	6	6	8
	Speed	0.99	0.99	0.99	0.99

@KHANATTILA

I had not included the faster infantry units because they should be slightly different.

I think the difference is not much. So here is another one with them being added.

	Stats	Champion	Legionary	Elite Obuch	Elite Serjeant	Elite Samurai	Elite Jaguar Warrior
Cost	Food Cost	45	60	55	50	50	60
	Gold Cost	20	20	20	35	30	30
Upgrade Cost	Upgrade Cost (Food)	1475	1050	800	800	750	1000
	Upgrade Cost (Gold)	730	505	600	675	650	500
	Train Time (Seconds)	21	14	12	12	9	10.8
	HP	70	75	95	85	80	75
Attack	Base Attack	17	16	14	15	16	16
	Vs Eagle	8	8	3	3	3	2
	Vs Building	6	6	8	5	5	4
	Vs Other		4 vs Infantry			12 vs UU	11 vs Infantry
	Reload time	2	2	2	2	1.43	2
	Melee armour	4	6	5	7	4	5
	Pierce armour	6	6	6	8	5	6
	Speed	0.99	0.99	0.99	0.99	1.1	1.1

[FearfulSugar350]

@bigbossbro08

@FearfulSugar350

-Supply: -10 food / -5 gold cost for militia line. Plus cuts infantry’s population cost by 25% (4 infantry units = 3 pop)

Delete Supplies. No upgrade should be 1 unit-line specific.

Well, that’s why I suggest it cuts infantry population cost by 25%, that includes spear line and UU infantries.

[bigbossbro08]

@FearfulSugar350

Well, that’s why I suggest it cuts infantry population cost by 25%, that includes spear line and UU infantries.

I would save it for civ bonus. As a base line unit, making it Karambit mass spammy isnt making this unit helpful rather other way around. You dont waste your training time for nothing. Having Obuch Stats without gimmick is actually helpful or taking the treatment from AOM by making Swordsman like infantry in general a soft counter to Cavalry.

[KHANATTILA]

@FearfulSugar350

I would fix them like this:
-Man at arm upgrade removed, Militia is instantly upgraded to MAA for free upon aging up.
-Base speed increased to 1.0 (equal to spear line).
-Squire: move to feudal age, costs 75 food.
-Supply: -10 food / -5 gold cost for militia line. Plus cuts infantry’s population cost by 25% (4 infantry units = 3 pop)
-Gambeson: +1m/+1p armor.

@bigbossbro08

It can be a good if you think about Bulgarians. But annoying meta ppl exist and may not want this change

The fix is to make MaA absurdly broken, I understand.
If you’re going to propose such a thing, you should at least say how to rebalance the key civilisations.

[bigbossbro08]

@KHANATTILA

The fix is to make MaA absurdly broken, I understand.
If you’re going to propose such a thing, you should at least say how to rebalance the key civilisations.

One alternative can be done is through taking too long to create M@A at Dark Age. Perhaps double the creation time. But once its upgraded to M@A automatically in Feudal then you can create it how you were used to. But a radical early game change regardless. It can either decline of M@A opening or might turn out to be OP. Basically you are taking the time to create 6 militia in Dark Age for 3 Militia opening.

[KHANATTILA]

@bigbossbro08

One alternative can be done is through taking too long to create M@A at Dark Age. Perhaps double the creation time. But once its upgraded to M@A automatically in Feudal then you can create it how you were used to.

Making the MaA upgrade free means making all civilisations capable of at least a 5-unit rush, and the civilisations that can do 4 today to 6.

How I should stop 6 Japanese MaA in feudal I do not know

[bigbossbro08]

@KHANATTILA

Making the MaA upgrade free means making all civilisations capable of at least a 5-unit rush, and the civilisations that can do 4 today to 6.

Again creation time can take long enough while opponent already reaches Feudal Age at that point. If possible 2.5x time in Dark Age can still delay the rush by large margin. Just making 3 Militia can simply take more time than to research Feudal.

[KHANATTILA]

@NastyHigh

I dont understand the purpose of increasing the food cost to 55F. Just give them 80HP, no need to make them more expensive.

Because the unit is already cost-effective against many units in melee, but has the problem that the situation rarely occurs.

So raising the stats without raising the cost would make it too strong in some situations. While maintaining the same cost-efficiency and raising pop-efficiency in the meantime, makes the unit generally easier to use.