Yet another balance suggestion toppic

I’ve been refraining from doing this topic, but since a lot of people is giving their opinions about balance changes, I’m gonna give mine. I’m gonna divide this into things I think should be changed, and think that, while not necessary, could be changed to make some civs work differently.

Here we go:

Thing I think need to be changed

General: Steppe Lancer needs some rework. I don’t have a super clear idea for this, so I would include it in the other section

Burmese: Nerf Arambai, either reduncing the attack to 15, or Reducing the range to 4. They’re to OP, specially in castle age. Other option could be nerf the creation time to 23 or 24 seconds

Italians: Free archer armor techs. I originally tought this idea for Koreans, (and still could apply for them) but could be viable for italians as well. Other option is that Archer line upgrade cost 50% cheaper Also GC creation time could be reduced to 21/18 or even 20/18

Indians They’re too strong in pocket position. They eco allows them to boom 3tc and make tons of camels at the same time. I would reduce the vil bonus to 10/15/15/20 Elephants archers range should be increased to 6 in order to make them have an advantage againts regular archers (plus… they’re shooting from like 5 metters high, you know…)

Khmer: Either take away Heavy plow, or even Hand cart (yes, heavy nerf, but overall needed). Yes, other option could be nerf their elephants (Take away the speed bonus or nerf tusk swords) but, even with weaker elephants, the infinite spam would still be to much. Khmer are still broken, even after the last nerf to elephants. For me, the problem is not the elephant itself, but their insane economy. It’s senseless to have the best food economy and the best unit in pop efficience in the same civ (unit that cost a lot of food). Instead of nerfing their elephants further more, I would nerf their economy

Koreans: Free archer armor techs as I say, this could apply either for koreans or Italians. Free elite skirm is another option. As @horapallas said Panokseon should not exist. Turtle ships should be granted for free (or maybe in the elite) and the tech dould be replaced for +2 range for towers (extra range bonus dissappear, becoming, thus, this UT)

Portuguese: Skirmishers and spearmen have +10%/15%/20% HP in Feudal/Castle/imperial OR Skirmishers and pikes have +1 range (should lose Halbs if this idea is implemented, altough eveny Pike +1range could still be OP) Ports are amazing in water, and awful in land. While their gold discount isn’t bad, it feels super generic. Trying to keep this “jack of all trades” identity for they military bonus, I came with the idea of buffing their trash, making it superior ir some way. Arquebus tech should be fixed. Also Portuguese could get Squires.

Turks: I have several options for this one. For me, the main issue for turks is their problem to handle archers in the long rung (HCA being the only option they have in the long run). So I have several Ideas. The first, more discussed and controvertial: Give them elite skrims I consider elite skirm a basic unit for 1v1 that can’t be replaced with anything else (while halbs role can be covered with camels, for example). Other option could be give them a semitrash infantry unit that counters archers and halbs some infantry costing arround 50F and 10 gold. With 60hp, 7 attack, good speed, high PA, and bonus attack againts archers and halbs, but no Melee armor (could be named YAYA, as the iregular ottoman infantry corp). giving Hussars +3damage againts archers coud be another option, altought this would make turks even more a one-trick horse, I mean pony :stuck_out_tongue: last, but not least, a grenadier could be added as as second UU. Like the slinger, but with an slower fire rate, and a small blast radious, could be useful to attack group of archers (maybe give it +1 or +2 againts archers). If either the Yaya or the grenadier are added, they should be an Imperial Age Unit (first from the barracks, second from the archery range)

Changes that could be interesting to try out but I’m not sure of:

General: Steppe Lancer need to find a niche. I guess the best for them is to become an anty infantry unit: So I would rework it like 70F 30G 8/10 attack for non elite/elite, with +8/+10 againts infantry and +3/+5 cavalry class armor. Something like a weaker cataphract, in order to make them viable to mix in with heavy cavalry. A costly adittion that can make the army much more powerfull. I would nerf other stats (armor, HP) in order to make them more vulnerable to knights and archers

Berbers: Explosive ships +33% damage OR +33% blast radious Berbers are supposed to be good in water, but their bonus is highly neglectable. This could work fine with their faster ships bonus

Burmese: If arambai are nerfed, they should need something for their castle age. Skirms +1PA per age starting in castle age since Howda was nerfed, arambai became the only answer to archers. Also burmese elephants should get a buff, in order to became a viable unit for them (supposedly they are an elephany civ) Elephants have 200% trample damage (basically, it reverse the last nerf for burmese)

Indians: Sultans could hipotetically unlock battle elephants for indians (only if their eco is nerfed)

Lithuanians: as some well-known user stated some time ago, Leitis concept is weird, since it’s supposed to be a better version of the best paladin available. A wild idea would be, as he o someone else proposed, to make it a glass cannon. I came with an sketch of it in AOEzone some time ago: stats similart to:

60F 30G (non elite/elite stats)
attack: 15/18
HP: 50/70
MA: 0/0
PA: 0/1
Speed: 1.5
Training time: 10/9 seconds

not precise numbers, but that’s the idea. Good for raiding and last minute defense for your castles. ideal for snipping trebs

Saracens: So, Saracens are a bit odd civ. They were supposed to represent all muslim civs, and thus, where made good at every field. Currently, they’re used as an archer civ, altought they’re supposed to be a camel civ. Plus, their team bonus can be a little OP with certain civs. So I though this: replace the team bonus with the concept of Madrasah. New team bonus: Monks retuns 20% gold cost when they die. And replace Madrash with a new UT for castle age: Damascus Steel (300F 200G): Camels have +2 attack At the end, saracens camels would have same attack and +10Hp than indian camels, but less PA, slower creation time and no bonus againt’s buildings (and no eco bonus like Indians do). It this is to much, zealotry could be modified to give only 20hp to camels and mameluks (and adjusting elite mameluk by giving it extra 10hp)

Anyway, I guess those are a lot of Ideas. I hope some of them might be useful. And if not, well, it’s always fun to play arround balance ideas.

EDIT: I forgot to add, that, if buff to elephants is to strong for burmese, anoter way I found to buff them indirectly is giving Burmese Free faith.


No nerf for Arambai needed. They die nearly against every Archer units because of low accuracy they are weak at range, not only against Skirms.


Just work towards what made them overpowered in the first place rather than reinventing the wheel.

What do you propose? Khmer without their eco bonus would be dead again. Specially after all the nerfs to elephants. And what made Arambai OP? how is that nerfing their attack is reinventing the wheel? 11


Give them a less game breaking eco bonus and perhaps revert the other nerfs, yeah we had fun with it but it’s clearly very abusable for a civ with such a good tech tree.
Arambai are still only truly OP on arena, one map (I don’t get why is it a staple anyway and not part of rotation). I think TT nerf is fine and maybe a slight ROF decrease. They also buffed their wood cost, so perhaps they should look that way too

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Leitis don’t need rework and Khmer are balanced


No, they’re not. They’re utterly broken

Yes, every pro player pick Khmer on every map. Also Slavs have FASTER FARMERS.

Is kinda late to rework the whole unit, and a lot of players already (including me) love them, not to mention that Lithuanians are balanced.

And what Khmer need is to reduce the Battle Elephant speed bonus to 10% and make it to affect Ballista Elephant.


How is that a nerf for Khmer? Like 5% less speed and magically they’re not broken anymore?

You know, I’ve come to despise most balance suggestions, as they tend to squash balanced but unique Civs. Those are exactly what makes the game a little unique, unpredictable and fun, as opposed to all the othe RTS games ever.

I dont mind a couple suggestions, for instance the archer armor I’m pretty ambivalent towards, but if any cover and unit need a buff it’s the Portuguese and Piano cannon.

But, I like Tuks being a gold heavy cover as it adds a unique but balanced cover. Armambi just aren’t that good, and other then a buff to EEs, Indians seem fine.

I dont mind some of the other suggestions, and think some, like the berbers increased blast yield, would be fun.

Real problem is how Battle Elephants move crazy fast, but you know… remember when Cumans were broken and the December patch made them nearly worthless, was not until March patch that they are now decent.

My point, any civ deserves that drastic changes (especially when Khmer was once the weakest civ by all pros).


this is obviously a heavy nerf to the civ, how would you compensate them for this?


I mean that idea of glass cannon cavalry unit is kinda taken by the Magyar Huszar.

They have over the top paladins… Leitis is maybe just to powerful?

No, the problem is they move fast, and hit harder than other elephants while they have anninsane eco that allows them to be an infinite spam

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They were barely used before the buff and even now they’re not that viable in higher levels


yeah because lithuanians were in such a good spot before the buff to leitis. never used in tournaments and floating in the 30s for winrates with a UU that cost more gold then a paladin, on a civ with a terrible late game economy, and was easier to kill then a paladin too


Maybe, just maybe, the problem with Lithuanians wasn’t that Leitis was not viable, but that PATHING WAS BROKEN and melee units were useless. That and having one broken camel civ and one broken elephant civ as pockets, explains why paladin civs were not that popular.

nah, because franks, persians, and others were still popular. and even still - Lithuanians are in a good spot right now. gutting the leitis will change that drastically.

Persians where popular due to kamandaran being too cheap, and because they had the dark ageeco bonus