Dragoons are significantly overrated by many people, they are not a real threat to sweden, and caros will still more than easily kill them.
If they were only dealing with Dragoons, it wouldn’t be that bad.
The problem is they will have to deal with Bow Riders a little faster than the Dragoons.
Sure, unupgraded but rifle riders and upgraded jinetes will remove them from this mortal plain
Sweeden is still OP. Caroleans still have no real counter. There is still no need for sweeden to build any other unit and they can still trade very well against everything you throw at them.
So how exactly is it ruined again?
I definitely wouldn’t say they are still op.
They have been nerfed into the ground
I would even say they are low tier civ right now
Nope. Still among the best civs by a long shot. Clearly not as OP as they were before but they still require work. Caroleans need to be redesigned so they have a real counter in age2. Their nerfs only really worked for age 3 and up.
And dragoons and other ranged cavalry can’t win the game on their own, so they are not a solution.
Man, caroleans age 2 are quite bad units. They loose to normal euro musks(except for russian ones) and they do terrible vs cav, the only thing going for then is the charge ability and on top of that they click up to age 2 later than other civs.
Caroleans are only good on age 3 once they get carded.
Caroleans actually hard counter Rifle Riders from range, since RR are heavy cavalry. Caroleans have 1.5x against heavy cavalry from range (the UI says hand cavalry, but it’s actually heavy cavalry).
They may lose 1 on1, but caroleans are easier to mass.
The devs approached the nerf the wrong way. They should have nerfed the Caroleans in place so that sweeden has to build the expensive mercs, which would offset the huge economic power of torps.
Right now, caroleans still murder everything in their path and the economy is still superior to everything else. You just have to play sweeden like a normal civilization, with constant worker production and torps still allow better economy overall.
Just out of curiosity which civ are you playing as?
Because it could be the case that your civ might just need a buff.
I hope devs don’t over react here. Swedes is now in a much better spot than before.
As new metas get created for this literally new civ, it will just get stronger.
Only thing to consider is allowing Swedes to age up faster, there just doesn’t seem a way to make them click up before 3min.
Maybe an extra 100 food crate or an extra villager at start is all that is needed.
I agree there.
Also it wouldn’t be a bad idea to give them a 5 vill shipment on age 2.
you obviously dont play as sweden much.
they are most certainly not OP now. you must be part of the crowd that doesnt have a good strategy to beat them and cry OP???
caroleans will lose to skirmishers like any musk unit. they dont have any other unit. what other unit do you suggest they make??? the only other thing is a pikeman… not too useful against ranged units. they dont have archers or skirm unit (apart from the 8 xbows card). leather cannons are a 400 resource unit. not easy to build many in age 2 … esp with the wrecked eco…
cav is very expensive in age 2. mercenaries even more expensive and with a nerfed (wrecked) eco… how does one use mercs more??
hmmm… wrecked eco seems to be a common theme here.
Caroleans don’t lose to skirmishers due to the charge. And skirmishers aren’t widely available in age2. In age3, caroleans get the ranged resistance card, making skirmishers even less useful against them.
Sorry, when you need to combo 2-3 different unit types to take down a mess of a particular unit, that unit is still objectively OP.
Anyways, my suggestion was to revert most of the economy nerf but nerf the Caroleans instead. So now sweeden can use their economy for cavalry and mers and cannons.
are you serious?? caroleans charging massed skirms is basically suicide. hahahaha. you definitely dont sound like you play sweden at all. range resist card is age 4 card… most games do not get to age 4… we are not talking treaty here… we are talking supremacy game…
why do you need to combo different unit types any different to any other civ?? sweden only has 1 decent infantry apart from pikes … so the unit needs to have some sort of all rounder characteristics i suppose. i dont see how you need several unit types to counter caroleans… they are a musk/heavy infantry afterall with a few quirks.
i have played 100s of games ranked. and i can tell you now that sweden opponent matchups were actually not that common BEFORE the nerf in 1vs1 games… and now its even less.
would like to know the official stats from the servers - whats the win rates and utilisation rates for sweden before and after the destructive nerf? i would be surprised if anyone bothers anymore.
You sure? Always seems to shred caroleans with em, even upgraded