Zhu Ge Nu Change

We all know that the latest patch will lower the cost of this unit but it doesn’t address the real problem of it being a paper tiger.

Archer has longer range and faster movement speed and crossbows are better against armored units.

I think the devs should have a small splash damage after all they are spraying those bolts everywhere.
The splash damage would make it worthwhile to build them at it would balance the shorter range and slower movement speed.

Any thoughts?


Well … They deffinetly need a buff … But another Chinesse unit with aoe damage? please god No.

Fire lancers - total cancer in team games - I really suffer against them as RUS

New year party rockets - probably gonna be fine with an upcoming buff

  • mangonel of course

I think thats enough for them :mask:

Chinese civilization needs a strong characteristic arms unit to end the game. At present, this version is zero. In the face of the poor winning rate of strong civilization, other civilizations have the characteristic arms unit or ability to end the game. Either add crossbows to Chinese civilization in the Tang Dynasty, or strengthen nest of bees to about half of the damage it had during the test, and reactivate this unit to regain its ability to end the game. You can’t ask Chinese civilized players to rely on extraordinary play to win the game every time. Zhugenu is rubbish. Making it cheap still doesn’t change that it is a kind of rubbish.


It won’t be a huge AOE imagine just hitting the unit beside the main target. Something to make the Zhu a worthwhile investment because as of now why bother making it?

“Chinese civilization needs a strong characteristic arms unit to end the game.” What ? You mean siege weapons from Clocktower, grenadier and handcannoner with range are not enough ? I don’t agree, their end game is by far the strongest with Rus.

The actual problem of the chinese is not about late game but their early game. Dynasties took a lot of ressources and some are kinda bad specially 1 and 4.

For a Zhu Ge Nu revamp, maybe they can add some bonus damage to light cavalry, but take care about thoses changes it can make them broken.

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Exactly. There’s no way for Chinese to win in early game. Therefore giving Zhuge Nu bonus against armored units would be welcomed (to counter early armored units or a fast castle).

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That would be nice but I believe it would be too much plus it’s not historically accurate that the early repeater crossbows can punch through armor.

Hence the small AoE around the main target, same damage and stats but now with splash damage.

Well that’s why I was talking about damage against cavalry only, Chinese already have a lot AoE damage unit if you compare to others civ. Crossbows are the actual counter against heavy units, it could be a good combo with palace guard till age 4.

As I mentioned in my previous comments, having crossbows in the Tang Dynasty, or strengthening nest of bees in the castle age, so that Chinese civilization can end the game before the imperial age. Other civilizations generally end the game in the castle era and will not leave the opportunity to the Chinese civilization in the imperial era.


To try to prevent this forum from being an echo chamber…

The Zhuge nu is more cost effective than archers Vs every feudal unit , Including MAA and early kts.

The issue isn’t the cost, it’s how difficult it is to get them.

It feels like the same issue people had with thinking China is garbage tier or that French are unstoppable (myself included with French) but we’ve seen neither of these are true, even if the French matchup will get nerfed

You can’t start massing xbows in feudal. Neither do xbows perform as well Vs other targets, and I’m pretty sure ZN has more hp than xbows.

MAA are slower than KTS. KTS are slower than horsemen. Does it mean either of these are always worse? As you want us to believe is the case with ZN

The speed of the ZN is good enough , especially since it is a ranged unit, if you try kite it, you still need to stop and shoot, which gives it time to close the 0.5 gap and because of the way arrows work, you will still get hit even if you teleport across the map.

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Yeah, the only civ who can mass xbow atm is French because of the 5 armor melee/ranged + attack speed and lower cost under a keep (heavy peel with KTS).
I also think the movespeed of the ZN is good, on their early tc they got handcannoneer giving them a better automatic defenses than other civ pretty much like english and they can also faster wall, that’s why giving them cavalry bonus dmg could be a great way to cut french rush, mongol rush or even horse archer.

For the lore purpose, providing an arrow barrage is supposed to be pretty efficient against horsse who most of the time don’t have armor. Still a thing : only light cavalry or also heavy cavalry ? Because KTS got a lot of armor already and ZN shoots multiple projectiles, I guess it’s not a problem so a +3/4 bonus damage can be great.

I’d even that could create some new ranged comp that other civs don’t have, with anti-cav ranged + archers / horseman or palace guards.

On paper I completely agree with you. But I find in game ZN are decidedly mediocre versus everything.

I agree it might be time. At the point in the game when you’ve unlocked Song Dynasty and made say 10 of them, opponents can easily be reaching castle age (or made a horde of their own units). And while they are on paper better than archers versus MAA/Knights, they still aren’t especially effective versus them.

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