Yes but fires are however less efficient in both cases.
Japs have tankier and more efficient FS, and they save more wood on mills/lubercamps. [quote=“CactusSteak2171, post:40, topic:81827”]
Condos aren’t made to be your main troop.
[/quote]
No that’s I know, I admitted that is because my personal negative bias toward champions, but to me could be interesting and fun, but no fundamental.
Still this way they could make Tham generic for everyone, but a bit unique for Italians.
Yes, but all slow civs at least reach a point when they can punch back with a lot of strength.
On this I agree.
Only in mediterranean and gold shallow (now), but no on ohert ibrid maps or on full land.
They are generic, as it is their infantry, cavalry, siege and monk in castle age, a lot of civs have something.
It is definitely a nerf on water when you research the fishing ship upgrade in castle age. And a big nerf overall in imperial in terms of spared resources. Ok, they can get there easier, but with less power. Overall it is a minor change on water unless you consider the effect on all the imperial techs, but you have a decent land civ.
I guess that, in practice, water game would be played very similar…
Condotteiors are fine right now, they are a good counter against gunpowder, and once you advance to imperial age you basicly get it as free, you don’t need to upgrade it.
That change alone isn’t enaugh, to me the changes to GC and FS are more important (and to condos could too), this could help or not.
Also in imp to compare the resources saved, you don’t have to consider all techs (CG and ECG would however come in late when you have the resources), the strength of Italians come from super cheap shipwright, and the upgrade to galleon and FFS, all 3 researched right away upon hitting imp.
So if you made the math considering only this 3 techs (and dry dock if really want, but it’s a little less important), you will see that it’s actually a big nerf on water in imp.
Yes but it could be fun and at the same time wouldn’t make them OP, also that’s why I didn’t propose to directly buff them, but only trough pavise. If it’s not balanced, it could be movedto imp by switching it with silk ROAD, or it could simply be increased in cost, to compensate the fact that you don’t need upgrades for condos.
As long as they are fine I wouldn’t change anything, even if it makes them more fun to play. There are two reasons for this: First, It has the potential of making something unbalanced which was already balanced, second, we should focus on changing unbalanced parts of the game not the balanced ones. If you make a useless unit actualy useful, then it will be much more fun to play aswell.
They would remain solid on water. I totally agree that it is a nerf, but it is a way to balance them between land and water.
However, it depends on the way you change the percentages of age up discount and dock tech.
The issues on TT of GC is a different thing, and you are probably right on the TT. But that is a clear buff (which I do not dislike), I was thinking more on a trade-off. You lose something in water, but become more playable on land.
Solid yes, top tier, not so sure. With 40% it would mean 354.5 less resources in imp (without factoring CG and ECG but all other 4 techs), while with 33% 602.65, all compensate with 360 resources save in the first case, and 540 in the second for the age up .
So as you can see it is better balanced the first case, but it would make that much of a difference (now they save 270r).
Ok, maybe I misspoke, I didn’t mean that condos right now aren’t balance, because I know they are. I said that I would like to see the Italians’ infantry-late game more unique and diverse than other civs, so for that it could be cool to buff them a bit (without buffing them for the allies) and balancing this by nerfing their overall barracks, they already lack halb, so lacking champions too could balance a more powerful condos. I know it’s different from now, but it could work in my opinion.
It would make them more flexible and versitile, not just a counter unit, but a unit that you can’t counter with HC.
Buffing HC it’s not necessary, my idea was only to make Italians a bit more unique and diversified from other civs, since it’s doesn’t have anything out of the ordinary (with the exception of GC of course).
This buff to the condos wouldn’t make more powerful against HC (they would take 12 damage instead of 13 per shot, so not that big of a difference for a unit which purpose is to counter them), also this “buff” (it’s not properly a buff since it’s balanced by another nerf) would affect only the Italians, the it wouldn’t change nothing for the Italians on team games.
So in general, HC would stay the same, while condos could be use a little more outside of their areas. The Italians for example would have a “champion” that move faster and it’s a little bit more tankier, but is less effective at countering trash, eagles and buildings (and cost a bit more).
Mangudai takes way longer to mass vs GC and you still see mangudais, so the problem is not about massing, its just that GC are Only good against cavalry, but they can take down or one shoot many cavalry units.
So you may not always want to make genoese crosbows or they may not worth it all times.
They are supposed to be played at late game.
Italians are already good on land. You guys are talking like if italians were really bad but they are not.
Well of course, they are a CA, mangus have more HP, attack, speed, and they are more versitile in general while taking only 3 seconds more in castle age than a GC, so it’s more worthwhile making more of them.
Yes but to actually count cavalry GC still need to outnumber them, yes less than the xbows, but still for a unit trained at a castle. You still need 13 GC to one shot a knight, and with 1 less range they can also land less shots.
That’s why you never see them, they should incourage to be used earlier.
They definitely are, maybe they are ahead only of turks and portos, but they are low tier.