5 HC Cards for training time is ridiculous

Here we want to keep stats the same but without needing 5 slots. Training cards arent that used on supremacy but are a must on treaty.

The only one we could ommit is Indian gunpowder since just affected sepoys in a lesser extent but after imperial upgrade nerf it has become a must to have. That change wasnt needed as you said, India is strong enough in supremacy.

Im not agree with extra slot deck, thats for USA and Mexico while 1 more slot wont solve that much.

India is better than before all of us agree on that, but it has been made in a poor way by adding cards to an already heavy card civ.

The issue is that all of them are needed to become India average on treaty. Not like France, Germans or Dutch that can choose to not add the new ones.

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There is a limit of 10 cards per age

And India’s age2 is already “LOADEDDDD” with card, there is absolutely no scope to add the 26th card in age 2, which the Supremacy is concerned with.

A typical Indian Deck struggle is in AGE2, which will still be there, COZ! MOST of the high dependency cards are in age2

And that 26th doesn’t buff India nor change anything, neither can u’ll be able to call it, even in team games hardly ever.

BUT in treaty ! that 1 extra card will make a lot of difference to have a minor eco card in age1 or age 3, or a team card or just any ok-ish card.

Exactly the point ! India is “at best” (bottom A-tier) average in treaty, and mostly a B-tier Treaty civ.

Im fine with any solution I just need a solution, But I prefered deck cap +1 coz Itll be easier to implement for devs, and as per track record of Indian updates, there has never been a deep down Indian update, except the last ones.

For treaty specific changes, wouldn’t it be better to try and shore up the civs main weakness in end-game artillery? Siege eles are strong off how they compare to falc shipments in age 3, but in treaty they’re pretty useless as soon as anyone pulls out culvs.

I mean, how much does it matter how many ups indian infantry and cav get when any other civ can mass up cannons and meatshield and counter it all the same?

To give a recommendation I’d say, there should be a lategame card/tech to enable mortars out of a buildings.


There is a limit of 10 cards per age

And India’s age2 is already “LOADEDDDD” with card, there is absolutely no scope to add the 26th card in age 2, which the Supremacy is concerned with.

Look at this point, its clear that someone needs to teach you the alphabet of the game if you think this is a point. Just go make another thread asking how much having a potential extra age1 card can make or break a strat, especially on a civ that already has the consulate. You need alot of feedback on this topic.

I hope you know that having a card in deck,
able to call that card are two different things ? especially in age1 (for that the card should be very much more than worth it)

And maybe, just maybe U wanna go through the “game breaking” age1 Indian cards :slight_smile: and then teach others bout them. Meanwhile in supremacy age1/2 India HAS to compulsorily call ATLEAST 1 or 2 trickle cards.

IDK which such frightening card India have in age1 :confused:
Such that calling that card in supremacy after ~10+ min. marks makes sense.

Even If I try to pick that, the most probable contenders for age1 supremacy are :

  • Enlist Irregulars (TC damage and, Irregular cost+quantity increase),
  • Farmland Conservation (remove wood cost of paddy upgrade)
  • Furrier (faster and more food from animals)
  • Some Wood cutting faster card or 300res.

I’d rather assume its more likely, if an extra slot happens, people in supremacy are most likely to use it for a 3rd age military shiment than an age1 card. For that reason this must be discussed and tried upon, yet still calling this game breaking is overstatement.

CC: @Ekdal1378 , @Ezad97

Howdas do a pretty good job as “culverins” indeed. The biggest problem is to counter mass infantry, specially halberdiers and protected Skirmishers.
Right now, they get rockets that do the job but if you use them you lose your wood crates supply (their factories equivalent). India needs a lot of wood, so calling rockets become prohibitive.

The issue is not current stats but how they are implemented by adding cards.

Economic wise there is no civ that has to sacrifice its factories plus Villagers to be capable of training an expensive army.
India has not any special economic strength

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i gotta ask why you’re using so much wood in the lategame as india

Battlefield construction. People used to not like indian barracks and stuff. So you have to rebuilding constantly to not lose terrain.

Also mahouts are needed until rockets come and, since last patch rajputs are needed for mass cavalry

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100% !
In exponentially increasing wood consumption order for treaty :
Vills/Walls < Siege Elephants < Mohouts < Battlefield construction (building spam) :hot_face:

Rajputs in Treaty is a relatively new and selective phenomenon so not including them as of now.

well then i definitely play lategame india aot different then y’all, I never use mahouts and rarely use barracks units. I’m no Andes 3v3 player but I used to almost exclusively play india in ffa & treaty

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Then, what you do?? Spam Howdas, and just howdas?

I got bored of Andes so I avoid it. I dont unerstand the obsession of the community with that map. Training times arent that unfair right now (but number of cards needed…). If the playing-natives player lose is a lose game.

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i use flails instead of mahouts. way more hp per pop, more resist, and 4x vs artillery. they also have a bugged dmg cap that lets their melee dmg stack really exponentially. You dont have to commit as much pop to cav so you get more ranged units total. You dont need flails to do a lot of dmg, mostly just sponge up ranged attacks. They are extremely effective against cannons if you can get a good flank but otherwise they just mostly tank


I love them, main reason my enemies hate my buildings. 2 castles training flails in the middle of enemy forward base.
Then, reemplace their buildibgs with indian ones and repeat.

I said that in case I lose my barracks but one I use cease fire? xD

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Most underrated unit of the game. Easily.

I Do use mix of both mohout n skirm, but I still end up making mostly mohouts. But Flails work wonders against US and Dutch.

This problem is so real in treaty, It hard to defend from a 34-40 ranged cannons/mortars even if you spam a huge base, It all can go down in seconds if you got stopped from pushing.

Wouldnt a better artillery piece solve alot of the problem tho? If you have an artillery piece out of barracks then you can afford to skip the rockets and focus on the wood.

On the other end, what about a regenerating mango grove building? You invest a bit of gold (or whatever) to replenish it and gather wood from it over and over. Kinda like how livestock pens take food and return more, but with wood - just eliminate the crate dependance all together.

yeah, agree. I think that flails are the only viable cav for India. Mahouts aren’t pop-effective, they should be 5 pop after the card.


Thats the point, removing card dependance, adding rockets as card is not a great solution. Training them would be better. How? Thts the question.

About chopping wood, crates are better since villagers gather them a lot of faster so you need 2-3, not 10-20. The other ones have to be farming. Interesting idea tho.
Mangos need a buff, nobody use them. Maybe faster rate as Coil mine (not as fast but get the point)

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Thats the point, removing card dependance, adding rockets as card is not a great solution. Training them would be better. How? Thts the question.

Trainable rockets might not matter all that much - heavy artillery is strong, but comes out way to slow to matter if the enemy has enough culvs types to snipe it. In that sense, falcs and horse artillery types that are weaker but more mass able might be better at solving the infantry problem.

As for how, the agra fort already has upgrade techs for age3/4 that allows it to train units. Another age 5 upgrade with an effect similar to Imported Cannons - export and res cost split - might be another way.

Mangos need a buff, nobody use them. Maybe faster rate as Coil mine (not as fast but get the point)

IIRC mangos have the same rate as normal wood which is indeed pretty lame. Extending the livestock analogy I used, consider this:

Mango Woodlot:

Mango groves can be replenished by coin (500 coin for 5000 wood, numbers tentative). Villagers gather from mango groves at a base rate of 1.2/sec.

This is a concept for a potential age 5 upgrade available at and for mango groves. The 1.2 base gather rate came from comparing the gather rates of farms (0.5 food/sec base) to livestock (effectively 1.27 with 4 vils).

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Its a good idea, but crates keep being better with their 8/8.80 wood/second as it compensates the lack of factories vs 3.3 w/s with every upgrade and card with your rate. Good for supremacy, where rarely last more than 25 cards.
Maybe Victory tower could grant these ones in later ages as age up shipment idk

As far as crates go, doest the french consulate allow you to send infinite crates with export? Also grants a passive gather rate boost. At some point thats gotta be better than having to run crates in the deck.

No that was the change for the British stuff. Could be the next thing though even then export for res is a bad trade for how slow export generation is.