A Cost-Effective Pirate DLC Proposal: Barbary States & Zheng Yi Sao's Red Flag Fleet

First of all, congratulations on the recent Baltic DLC! It’s fantastic to see Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition receiving new official content again. The community has been waiting a long time for this, and the Baltic update proves that AoE3 still has a bright future.

I want to revisit an idea I proposed some time ago: a pirate-themed DLC. Back then, I suggested adding two civilizations — the Barbary States and the Republic of Nassau — along with pirate neutral factions around the world that players could ally with. With the game now back in active development, I’d like to renew that proposal, but with a much more cost-effective plan.

After replaying the campaigns recently, I realized something important: two pirate factions already have a very high level of completion in the existing game files. We’ve seen this before — the Mediterranean DLC turned the campaign-only Malta into a fully playable civilization. The same logic can apply here.

My revised proposal: keep the Barbary States, but replace Nassau with Zheng Yi Sao’s Red Flag Fleet.

I know the Red Flag Fleet wasn’t a “civilization” in the traditional sense, but historically it was an enormous naval power that could stand toe-to-toe with nations. At its peak, Zheng Yi Sao commanded hundreds of ships and tens of thousands of pirates, defeating Qing, Portuguese, and British forces alike. The Red Flag Fleet has a stronger claim to a place in AoE3 than many other pirate factions.

Here’s why this plan is so efficient:

· Barbary States: They already appear in the Historical Battles with a nearly complete unit roster — corsair ships, camel riders, Berber light cavalry, Moorish musketeers. Turning them into a full civilization requires minimal new assets.
· Red Flag Fleet: The Chinese campaign already features the Treasure Ship as a building model, which could serve as the pirate civilization’s Home City or flagship. For military units, we can base them on the Ming Dynasty military system — this makes historical sense, since Zheng Yi Sao’s fleet operated during the Qing dynasty but inherited many Ming-era naval and infantry traditions, and many of her crews were former Ming loyalists or coastal peoples with Ming military heritage.
·The Red Flag Fleet’s military could reuse existing Chinese civilization units and buildings models, with new additions limited to the flagship, pirate-specific units, and a small number of unique units. This would further reduce development work dramatically.

Priority and value:

I understand a pirate DLC and these two civilizations are not top priority. But the key point is: the completion level is already very high. Much of the work is done. This is not a request for a massive expansion — it’s a request to finish what’s already partially in the game.

Yes, there are excellent Pirate mods out there, like Age of Pirates. But many of their assets come from films and are not historically accurate. More importantly, I want to play as a pirate civilization in the Age of Discovery era within the official game — with proper balance, proper campaigns, and proper support.

A pirate DLC would fill a huge fantasy gap in AoE3: the age of sail, plunder, and lawless empires. The Baltic DLC showed that the devs still care. I hope the community and the developers will consider this proposal.

One last note: my English is limited, so the English version of this post was translated with AI assistance. I apologize for any awkward phrasing.

Thank you for reading.

2 Likes

The idea strikes me as feasible in terms of revolutionary options for the British and the Turks. The original concept involving the Barbary States and the Republic of Nassau seems the most sound to me; Zheng Yi Sao’s Red Flag Fleet does not seem significant enough to warrant basing an entire civilization or revolution around it.

The Red Flag Fleet feels more like a card that would belong to the Chinese civ or the Vietnamese civ, especially the latter. It could be a shipment delievering a bunch of outlaws.

A lot of Chinese pirates in the late 18th and early 19th centuries actually served the Vietnamese. After the new emperor of Vietnam stopped supporting them, those pirates fled to Guangdong and formed a confederation in 1805, which included that Red Flag Fleet. The confederation lasted for about five years before they surrendered to the Portuguese and the Qing government in 1810.

If we want an entire civilization or revolution, maybe the House of Koxinga would be a better fit. They had already been one of the most powerful maritime forces in East and Southeast Asia since Koxinga’s father’s time. They were genuinely loyal to the Ming and opposed the Qing, rather than just doing it in name, and they actually established their own regime in Formosa (now Taiwan) after defeating the Dutch.

Why would you ever actively ask for asset flip slop.

4 Likes

Yeah, let’s not introduce cost-saving measures to publishers/Devs eh?

  1. They’ll be plenty of higher-ups that will be looking at all angles for cost-saving (we’ve just witnessed an effective if completely brutal cost-saving exercise)

  2. Let’s not make our bar so low. We’re customers with hopefully some expectation of a quality product - let’s not make it akin to going to a market, telling the owner they can sell their crap, mouldy apples instead of the good ones, th n happily buying them.

  3. Piratical civs do have the ability to be justified fully-fleshed out Civ ideas (beyond the much needed Persia, Siam,) however it instantly gets cheapened as soon as we start to add things from other civs or recycled assets. A Barbary Corsairs civ for example, would actually be different to a proper Moroccan Civ as much as people like to use a broad net when talking about North African civs - considering Barbary States were Ottoman-linked and Morocco was its own fully functional civ (mad, I know!), but though they of course, has their own independent pirate state of Salé within (Salé Rovers being an ideal revolt for them).

  4. Complete re-use of assets just makes AoE3 head firmly into (AoE4) Variant territory, which is a big negative.

Piratical civs if developed well (and with a nice civ overview/unit roster!), could totally make an interesting ‘anti-civ’ DLC Civ pack.

I’d personally veer towards piratical civs that had some sort of base/home city analogue, with some sort of organisation to fit in our AoE3 civ mould.

As others have mentioned, the Red Flag Fleet fits more with being a ‘revolt’ type card or even a Consulate option - Qing were beaten by the pirate confederation enough that coastal places had to pay a protection tax.

I’d say that Wokou are a fairly interesting ‘civ’ as they had bases and essentially morphed over time from Japanese pirates, into snuggling networks, to sea lords (you can trace Koxinga to Wokou, interestingly)

As for Nassau/Flying Gang - their ‘portion’ of history (Golden Age of Piracy) lends itself as being a Haiti replacement for British.

As part of a bigger picture, it would also fit into a Sea Rovers (Euro/American) civ as the Buccaneering age (which is where pirate bases, pirate land armies, sieges etc get established) gradually evolves (or rather devolves) into outright piracy. All of which can easily have their own unit/building rosters, rather than using existings stuff.

1 Like

Developers stated, that the community is completely wrong when they think “having a campaign/scenario civ” would decrease the work to turn them into fully developed civs. In the contrary its more difficult to do so.

3 Likes

I don’t think we should be encouraging the developers to rely on so much on asset re-use for new DLC civilizations. Yes, the Malta civ did re-use certain assets from the Knights of St. John campaign since they are technically the same faction. However, by now most of those have had their visuals updated up to look more unique and better fit the civ.

The Barbary Pirates civ seen in the historical battle shares most of its unit roster with the Morocco civ that has its own historical battle. The main difference are the HCC decks they have, with Barbary Pirates mostly having a bunch of general naval shipments cards. some Ottoman units, and the ability to train Barbary Corsairs as their unique trait.

Nothing in the Barbary Pirates deck that really stands out as unique. Even the Morocco deck offered some unique cards and techs at least.


If the developers were to add more pirate stuff, why not update some revolutions that were involved in piracy or add a pirate revolution option?

The Barbary States revolution deck is rather barebones to start with and could really use an update:

The revolt deck doesn’t have much going for it. It seems to mostly focus on outlaws/mercs. The deck lacks the Theaters card to reduce outlaw population costs. I consider that card a necessity in order to use the Corsair Marksmen and by extension this revolt, effectively. There is also only one merc shipment, the team card that sends 4 Zenata Riders. What else do you get?

The naval cards all send Xebec ships. There are no naval upgrade cards at all. No Advanced Ports, no Improved Warships, nada. At least you can train some extra Privateer ships in the Docks after revolting.

There are some Berber cards, but they are flawed. Aïr Berbers only sends Berber nomads based on how many town centers and trade posts you have, and if they die, you can train anymore. The card that ships 15 Berber Camel Riders is a 1-time shipment doesn’t even upgrade the unit, so you’re paying 1000 coin to send some Age 2 stat native units.

The Dhimma card is just the Citizenship card is all but name. It doesn’t do anything different.

The upgrade cards for outlaws/mercs/Barbary units are fine at least. Corsair Captain does give you an extra Hero unit and a gimmick strategy of destroying enemy ships/building to get extra gold. But the ability to get extra resources from Treasures doesn’t do much when most of those treasures are gone by the time you revolt. There are no resource crate shipments either.

This revolution is critically lacking in cards that actually buff the revolution’s economy. There is nothing here that boosts gather rates. Neither in land nor sea. Even the historical battle deck had a few cards for that at least.


I came up with some potential additions to the Barbary States revolution deck that would strengthen it and give it a bit more flavor.

New/Updated Cards

Berber Allies - The player is now allied with the Berber natives. All Berber technologies can be researched at Native Embassies (includes Berber Fantasia, Berber Kings of the Desert, Berber Dynasties, Berber Salt Caravans, and Berber Ghorfas).

Berber Nomads can be trained at Town Centers and Native Embassies, up to a limit of 5. The Berber Salt Camel can be trained from Town Centers. Berber Camel Riders can be trained at Native Embassies and their unit upgrades researched for free.

Dhimma - Ships 6 Dhimmi Villagers; Dhimmi Villagers can be trained at Town Centers; Fishing Boats can be trained at Docks. Native units are 10% cheaper. Outlaws and Mercenaries are 10% cheaper. Adds a coin trickle of 1.00 to all town centers.

Tribute Payments - Ships 1 Treasure Chest containing 500 coin with every shipment you send including this one.

Algerian Budju Currency - Villagers gather coin 10% faster; Haciendas auto gather coin 10% faster

Algerian Wheat Crops - Adds a trickle of 2.00 Food per sec. Villagers gather food 10% faster; Haciendas auto gather food 10% faster

Kabylia Arboriculture - Adds a trickle of 2.00 Wood per sec. Villagers gather wood from trees and Mango Groves 10% faster; trees and Mango Groves last 10% longer

Algiers City Defenses - Buildings get +30% hit points. Delivers 3 Outpost Wagons. Outpost build limit +3.

Algerian Corsair Fleet - Warships get +20% hit points and attack, +2 LOS, and +2 range

Mashouda - Delivers 1 Battleship; costs 500 coin the first time sent and 1,000 coin thereafter.

These cards also added to the deck:

Theaters - Upgrades the Tavern to the Theater which can train Ronin; outlaws take -2 population

Mercenary Loyalty - Mercenary shipments cost -10% to -25%

Hire Barbary Corsair Force - Ships 15 Barbary Corsairs; costs 2,000 coin

Hire Egyptian Mamelukes - Ships 4 Mamelukes; costs 1,000 coin

Hire Askaris - Ships 11 Askaris; costs 1,000 coin

Advanced Dock - Docks get +100% attack and heal ships 85% faster, and war ship train time -33%


These cards will give the revolution a better way to recover its economy. It will also improve the revolt’s strength on water maps and provide benefits for players doing outlaw/merc unit strategies.

I swear people want “content” more then they want to play the damn game

the consequences of the live service model

2 Likes

Yes, I want more campaigns for the game, but since I know the devs aren’t going to make them… I end up doing it myself (playing around with the editor in the process)…

Reminds me of AoE2DE’s current trend :upside_down_face: