It is just that, in term of population efficiency, the Paladin is better as an all-purpose shock troop, while the Tarkan is a bit less competitive in an all-out brawl. Also, Tarkan still need a castle, while the Knight-line can be created and upgraded without any prerequite. That’s why some people deem Tarkan to be worst than Paladin.
1 Like
Not the Elite upgrade, the unit itself. If you have to choose betwwen 4 Paladins and 5 Tarkans, you will just choose Paladins. Also, you will never tech both units, you will be forced to choose between Elite Tarkan, and Paladin, to upgrade.
Even though Tarkans cost -15 Gold in comparison, that is a very low amount that is honestly inconsequential in the long run.
If it was -40 Food, on the other hand, people would be far more comforatble with Castle Age Tarkan spam.
It is not the cost of the upgrade that is holding Tarkan down, it is the cumulative need for Marauders UT, the unit cost and the fact that Paladin is just all round a better option.
Game is not balanced around Team Games, and even then, a Huns player that goes Mass Paladin will always beat a Huns player that goes Mass Elite Tarkans.
You also forget that you need the expensive Marauders UT to make Tarkans at the Stables, which if you pair up with the Elite upgrade, it becomes much closer to the Paladin upgrade cost.
The game is not balanced around team games
??? That sounds like severe bs to me, you have civs that have bonuses that literally do nothing in 1v1 including the all-important Spanish trade bonus and the situationally useful Portuguese cartography. You may as well say that the game is not balanced around water maps. It’s not balanced solely around water, or solely around team, or solely around Arabia, but that doesn’t mean a unit that’s better in team games than 1v1 is therefore bad because it isn’t good in 1v1. You could argue that Paladin itself is bad in 1v1 because you’re unlikely to be able to afford it.
Tarkan will lose against Paladin, but they serve a different role from Paladin. There’s a rec on Youtube of Viper and co. getting smashed by Lyx going Elite Tarkan and burning Nili and TatoH to the ground when before that they were pushing on all fronts.
1 Like
Ports Dark Age cartography does nothing in TGs. Team Bonii are usually small precisely so they do not overshadow the Civ Bonii.
The reason why Tgs cannot ever be balanced, is due to Team Bonus stacking.
A team with Saracens, Britons and Mayans, essentially has heavily discounted Ranged Rams and Mini-Trebs in the Castle Age.
That is OP to the the Nth degree!
Paladin does everything Tarkan does, except killing Castles, better. For that you have Trebs and Rams.
1 Like
Paladin does everything Tarkan does
Except be available right out of the gate instead of taking ages to research.
Team Bonus Stacking
A team with Saracens, Britons, and Mayans…
Nice theorycrafting, wonder why we didn’t see that composition in Battle of Africa. Could it be that stacking team bonuses isn’t as easy as you make it sound?
5 Likes
Knights are available before tarkans. Nice try.
1 Like
Tarkan needs a Castle, and Marauders. marauders + elite Tarkan means it is not “available right out of the gate”, like you said.
Paladin is just better, it is the best unit in the game, by far, in term of cost-effect ratio.
Followed closely by Knight, the Paladin of the Castle Age.
I guess that’s why we had interesting matches in team tournaments 11
1 Like
Interesting, but not balanced.
As someone that mostly plays TGs with friends, balanced games are boring.
just ask MTG, where the most popular format is Commander.
If the enemy is fully walled or has 1 bajillion archers I would take Tarkans any time of the day. They are a situational unit and it’s fine, as they are good at their job.
300w 200g isn’t that bad.
C’mon, why do people try to stack bonuses like Frank+Inca+Ethiopian then?
2 Likes
Exactly lol
The overall theme to be concerned about is, is that many many UUs in this game are practically unusable.
It cannot be denied that units like Mamelukes, Cataphracts, EAs, GCs, Condos, Gbetos, Samurais, TKs, Flaming Camels, Ballista Eles, Shotels, Orjan Guns, Turtle Ships, Genitours, Karambits, WEs and/or their Elite upgrades are currently overpriced for what they do.
Much work is to be done in balancing.
Now that demands in Mappools, Ladders and Matchmaking have been met, let us focus on BALANCE.
The pathetic situation of many Unique Units like the Tarkans is well summarized here,
and this goes to show just how many UUs are going through this neglect, for losing to generic units in EACH OF affordability, effectiveness and massability.
If even three massive buffs(HP/Atk buff, PA buff and Stable Creation buff for Tarkans ; -10% Cost buff, -15% Wood, Panokseon Speed buff for Turtle Ships) are NOT enough to salvage these Hun and Korean Unique Units, imagine what would be required to make Cataphracts, Missionaries, EAs, GCs, Condos, Samurais, TKs, WEs, Flaming Camels, Ballista Eles, Shotels, Orjan Guns, Genitours and Karambits viable…
1 Like
Pls stop trolling, it’s not funny
1 Like
??
(Min 20 characters)
Just because you think a cheap cavalry unit with 170HP and 8 pierce armor is useless doesn’t make it true. Not even mentioning the fact that Huns are a top tier Arabia civ.
And if you really think buffing units like flaming camel is a priority instead of actually helping Tatars, then you clearly have a stupid agenda
5 Likes
I don’t know what you love to say about me
All I know is that Mamelukes, Cataphracts, EAs, GCs, Condos, Gbetos, Samurais, TKs, Flaming Camels, Ballista Eles, Shotels, Orjan Guns, Turtle Ships, Genitours, Karambits, WEs, HCs, Longswords, Flaming Camels and Missionaries ALL need to be viable units at the very least. They should have a reason to exist, which is to say a role to consistently fill in serious gameplay.
the game has never been balanced around UNIT balance. ever. that is purely your wish, which has never aligned with the way the game has actually been balanced.
2 Likes
With that copy-paste reply, I don’t see myself or anyone with dignity taking these posts seriously
3 Likes
There are so many unusable/meme units NOT YET FIXED that the game loses it’s seriousness.
This is absolutely unacceptable, because it means to play this game you need to know from outside which units are known to be underpowered, which are traditionally overpowered, and which of them are utterly Memes since inception from the community or from hearsay.
One should not be required to worry of such things when deploying a unit in-game. A player should be tasked only with strategy.
Not with knowledge from outside the whole game.
Imagine a beginner who doesn’t know that Siege Towers/Flaming Camels/Missionaries/LS/Shotels/HC/GC/Orjan Guns/Ballista Eles/Condos etc
don’t do CRAAP compared to what is expected from the price, common sense or the facade!
(and hence some of these are literal memes too)
your idea of unusable does not align with others. just because they don’t see use at the highest level means absolutely nothing.
the game has literally never been balanced or designed the way you want it to be, and frankly, shouldn’t change now, because it goes against the core of what AoE2 DE is supposed to be.
a remaster of AoE2. if you want more then that, this has literally never been a game designed the way you want it. just because you are unhappy with that means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
4 Likes
All I know is that every UU must be viable. Each UU should have a role to consistently fill in serious gameplay with the respective civilization.
And the philosophy behind it I have put in my last reply.