A Generic Unit available to a civ should never take ALL the viability space of that civ’s Unique Unit

I believe that Generic Units available to a civ should never take all the viability space of that civ’s UU.

UUs should be balanced for that particular civ first and foremost. So that each Unique Unit becomes a VIABLE option for that civ, and is seen.

There are so many UUs out there whose place is almost completely taken by generic units already available to that civ, such as:

Hun Knight-line taking away all of Tarkan’s Viablility (even after major buffs and stable-availability)
Indian FU HCA taking away all of EA’s Viablility (even after 2 buffs)
Teuton Armored Champion/Knight-line taking away all of TK’s Viablility (even after speed buff)
Khmer +1 Scorpions taking away all of Ballista Elephant’s Viability (especially now that no BBC)
Persian FU Paladins taking away all of War Elephant’s Viability
Italian FU Arbalest taking away most of Genoese Crossbow’s Viability
Italian Supplies FU Champions taking away all of Condottiero’s Viability
Japanese Supplies FU Champions taking away most of Samurai’s Viability
Malay Forced Levy 2HS taking away all of Karambit’s Viability
Ethiopian Supplies FU 2HS taking away a lot of Shotel Warrior’s Viability (35G AND a castle reqd)
Cuman/Tatar Knight-lines taking away all of Steppe Lancer’s Viability
Saracen 170HP HCamels taking away most of Mameluke’s Viability (as Mams are killed by only 13 Skirm hits!!)
Spanish FU Monks taking awa…
Wait. I’m not even gonna mention Missionaries and Flaming Camels. They have been unjustifiably relegated to permanent memes. It’s useless to hope anything for them…

We already saw multiple buffs to Turtle Ships, Elephant Archers, Mamelukes and Tarkans, and look how frequently they are used now.
Hint: Just as much as before the buffs.

SOLUTION: I believe this can be solved by buffing these never seen UU’s from the perspective of that civilization first.
Like, for example, Tarkans could be even cheaper just because Hun’s have FU Paladins to compete
TK’s could be cheaper simple because Teuton have +2 armor Champions to compete
etc etc.

buffing an unused unit to be viable will never make a civ OP, as it only gives that civ another non-meta or not-so-viable strategy



this has been disproved so many times in so many different games. look at what nerfing the Steppe Lancer did for Cuman and Tatar winrates as an example. if removing options makes them get weaker, what do you think giving them more options would do?


That problem occured because the Steppe Lancers were far beyond Viable. They were as units, OP.
But now they are not even Viable.
All I ask is for such units and Unique Units to be Viable. I.e. Unit Balance, not just Civ Balance, is the need .


and what about the fact that Indians winrate in team games went up when the Elephant Archer was buffed? suddenly the unit is viable and their winrate increases…

game has literally never been designed that way. not at any one point in age of empires history.
so what you are essentially asking for is a complete redesign of the way the game is balanced from the ground up.


Then why were Tarkans, EA’s and Turtles buffed even though Indians and Huns are already good civs
Why was the UT Chatras, which only affects BE buffed
etc etc


and still not used.

used in team games, helped there team game play.

and still not used, and frankly, Koreans, to this day, could still use buffs, so if you can buff a weak civ, and do so in a way that is creative why not. but fact is, still not used.

Vietnamese were considered weak and in need of love.


and then we see people make posts like this
Oh wait, that was you…


The Leitis is beyond Viable, it is borderline OP. And I do not ask it to be nerfed to become non-viable(unviable like the Tarkans/War Elephants etc.) at all.
Whereas this post is about making UUs that are totally not viable, into atleast viable ones.

Now will you answer what’s wrong with buffing these unseen UUs?

Can you tell me why Shotels, Samurais and Condos should cost as much as 160HP 7PA 1.54Speed Hill Bonus Keshiks (50F 35G each Keshik generates>5G), while no-Castle-reqd FU Champions cost only 45F 20G


and I guarantee you there will be nerf posts from people not being able to stop Tarkans raiding the crap out of them and Elephants being unstoppable. Tarkans btw are often seen in Hun TGs, their spammability and raiding potential is insane. Pro games don’t last long enough for Elephants to come out from multiple castles, two expensive upgrades and a 70+ farm eco. War Elephants are more of a wallbreaker unit than a cavalry replacement. They break stalemates with their 620HP glory that Paladins or other units can’t

Yeah I guess they need cost revision


i already saw how the Elephant Archer performs if you can actually get on the field.
it literally shredded Malian 2H swordsman and Pikeman. that scares me.
i cant imagine what you would do to counter htem if you actually got enough of them on the field in a 1v1 game.

and yeah, Tarkans already shred buildings, the only thing stopping them from seeing more use is the Paladin + CA.


Make Halbs or Heavy Camels, and do not let the Lithuanians player get 4 Relics, perhaps?

You talked about mainly Tarkans

Can you tell me why Genoese Xbow deserve to be overshadowed by FU Arbs
why Karambits deserve to be overshadowed by Forced Levy 2HS
why Ballista Elephants deserve to be overshadowed by regular Scorpions
why Teutonic Knights deserve to be overshadowed by +2 armor Champions that cost half as much?

yes let me make analysis for 35 UUs, only for you making these posts again next week asking the same questions


i’m still waiting for him to show me the point in time where this game was designed/balanced around usable unique units for all civs.


Not against Cavalry they are not!

Trashanded-Swordsmen from the Barracks is much more unique than a weaker Shotel Warrior type unit like the Karambit.

They are not, even can cut through trees, in the Castle Age, which no Scorpion can ever do, even if FU.

Because Champions are a worse version of the TK already, and TKs can literally beat any Champion in the game.


Because Unique Units should serve a purpose, and acheive something that Generic Units or a combination of them cannot.

i didn’t ask why you think that. i asked when the game was designed that way.

also still waiting for your proposed counterbuff to Lithuanians to keep their winrates decent.


Agreed, especially for infantry UU now overshadowed by supplies champions and not even needing castles.


I disagree with most examples, I only think that most infantry UUs need a buff. By the way are you sure that you have fully thinked over these balance changes’ impacts on every aspect of the game? Since you’re starting topics so often that you either haven’t or you’re literally speding 6 hours a day thinking about it.


please for crying out loud watch this… (its the sotl video on how good leitis are cost wise)

not only do many factions not have camels, but others dont have FU halbs, and even then they arent necessarily cost effctive, nevermind that those counters (IN COMPARISON) are pretty much weak(including the camel) once their countering is done. even more so for the halbs, who can be avoided and then made worthless anyway