I would start by fixing the weak UUs of the weak civs. None would complain to see an organ gun buff
3 Likes
Yup Orjan Guns as well as Ballista Elephants, Teutonic Knights, Karambits(Malay most nerfed civ in DE 
) Turtles, Shotels, Condottieros, Genoese Xbows AND War Elephants
NEED to be BUFFED and no one can complain
And please please remove the nonsensical Archer Armor class from the 85G Mamelukes, which are already never seen from The-Now-Pure-Crossbow-Civ, Saracens.
Unless Memelukes have this armor class BS fixed, we’ll never see camels from Saracens now…
People say Saracens should ger Imp camels not Indians… when THEY ALREADY HAVE A BOSS CAMEL UU, which is held back so much…
1 Like
TKs and WEs belong to good civs. Karambit is from a decent civ, so fine for a buff.
Organ guns and genoese crossbowman do need buffs.
Condos are more difficult being a team unit, so first let us fix italians.
Nobody uses Shotels.
2 Likes
Massive amount of HP gives them good resistance. Even with all Skirm bonuses.
But they can tank onagers shots, unlike Scorps.
And Double Crossbow say hi.
Mamelukes are ranged themselves, so they can handle ranged units better than camels. They also dont have Halb weakness - because they can hit and run.
Please, stop. You know im one of the first who propose buffing unused UU.
3 Likes
And they have less HP, and they cost 50% more Gold than Camels, meaning they number far less than a Camel army in all circumstances (And I dont even mention that they train slowly, and from Castles)
Lanchester’s Laws on army numbers in action combined with no PA and lower HP means,
REKT vs all Foot Archer units
(And forget comparing them to any other heavy cavalry, as all other cavalry has 2+ PA)
The super high 85G Price is the real reason why Mameluke Archer Armor Class must be removed, to have Saracens actually use them, instead of Saracens becoming a 100% Archer-Crossbow-Arbalest civ that they are now.
just sayin’
We should distinguish units of underpowered civs, which can easily buffed, from units like cataphracts or mameluks, which belong to decent civ and do not need a huge buff. A small reduction of the gold cost is fine for the last two. While other UUs should be thought as a way to buff their underpowered civs…
3 Likes
Ok, youre right on this one. Mameluke is better against infantry, because can hit und run and not take damage at all.
And Mameluke should be compare to Camel, not Heavy Cav.
BTW, Cata has 1 base PA and is only heavy cav with so low PA.
then how do you counter them? not every civ gets good arbs and camels and arbs aren’t a definitive counter. Halbs sure, but with micro or arb support that can be negated. I think mamelukes should get like -5 or so food discount
Tarkans:
- They have 4 pierce armor and they don’t need castles. The problem is that Knights are better everything and they are good vs Archers too
- -10F
Elephants Archers:
- Their Elite upgrade should be cheaper
- Elite should need less time to be researched
- +1 range
Teutonic Knight:
- I think they are good as unit but you their Champions are very similar
- I think they training time should be decreased to 10 seconds
- -5F and -5G
Ballista Elephants:
- I think they are better than Elephant Archers overall but their cost should be reduced to 100F/70G
- They should lose their -2 siege armor class
War Elephants:
- I totally disagree with you here
Genoese Crossbowman:
- Foot Archers should recieve +1 pierce armor in general
- Their training time should be reduced to 16 and 13 (elite) seconds
- Elite Genoese Crossbowman +1 damage
Condotteiro:
- -5G
- +4 damage vs Eagle Warriors
- Affected by Pavise
- +1 pierce armor
Samurai:
- -5G and +5F
- +0.05 speed
Karambit Warrior:
- -5F and -5G
Shotel Warrior:
- -10G and +10F
Steppe Lancer:
- I think Lancers are Knights should be totally different units
- -5G
- Fire Rate buffed to 2.0
- Resist to conversion
- Might be not enough but I will give them some love in my custom civilization concepts alongside with gunpowder units and infantry
Civ 1: Steppe Lancers attack 20% faster and 15/25% cheaper in the Castle/Imperial Age + Imperial Steppe Lancer available in the Imperial Age
Civ 2: Steppe Lancer recieve +2/3 melee armor in the Castle/Imperial age + Unique Tech gives Cavalry Archers and Steppe Lancers +3 vs Infantry
Civ 3: Cavalry related upgrades are researched 80% faster + Unique Tech gives cavalry (expect Camels) trample damage
4 Likes
mamelukes are absolutely horrible, which is why you never see them, and they should be buffed, there are however a lot of instances where samuray are better than champions, (in Imp where you have castles it takes 3 minutes to have a decent samuray army, they are even strong without elite upgrade, while it takes ages to get to champions). shotels always felt like a weird unit to me, but they can be usefull to fast counter trash and rams in imp, karambits are much more viable than champions for raiding and you can avoid unfavorable fights much better. ballista elephants suck for everything except cutting trees. Genovese crossbows can be very strong in teamgames against battle elefants. most uu aren t designed to be the always have to go for it army of the civ, like plumes and munguday, they are situational but get their uses.
Mamelukes are the only uu i have never seen in a Game, no matter teamgame or 1v1, they need to be buffed or changed completely.
you counter them by not letting them get imp, almost all civs get crossbows or a good ranged uu, if someeone goes fc mamelukes, he should straight up die, which is why you never see it. you can go monks, halb, crossbows, siege+halb, there are a lot of counters.
This is so true.
However there are even more useless and unseen UUs
which ones? really can t think of any.
The problem with mamelukes is their cost: I think they should cost slightly less: -5G or -10G and Zealotry should be a lot cheaper.
4 Likes
I agree totally. But let us also fix the unrelated armor class problem too while we’re at it, buffing the unused Mamelukes.
1 Like
I still think the Zealotry is Saracen’s main problem because it supposed to make them a Camel civ but it’s very expensive compared to everything. I’d like to see -150F and -300G because it has weaker affects than Farimba and Mamelukes are very gold heavy
2 Likes
These are all good
these are more difficult. My guess is that they work better in late game black forest, so buffs are possible but not necessary
2 Likes
Extra damage is not needed. I would say that a further reduction of the TT should be implemented, to make it similar to ckn on that
3 Likes