Abbasid vs HRE pain, the forgotten balance

inspired from this reddit post


for knights you can make spears
but for early maa? really whats the play here

why non knight / maa civs dont have an option to deal with maa?
camel archers cost twice the MAA and it barely hurt them, let alone if the enemy spam them


a bad civ design that devs forgot to fix and redesign it. srry for the anon that tried to enjoy the game.

just to be clear, english has a better WR vs abba? but you call HRE out? is it because you dont understand how english are winning matches?

if you increase the sample size, suddenly mongols and chinese have an even better WR than HRE?

so chinese and mongol MAA are the problem now? imo the conq sample is too small, a single game changes the WR by a %, and its too soon after a balance change, to determine if abb really does have the weakness or not.

if anything i would say it reeks of confirmation bias

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As main Abba I can relate. All the rankeds I played against HRE, if HRE goes burgrave it’s gg. It floods your base with maa while TC can’t barely damage them, and you lose all your eco.

I can only win vs HRE when they go fast Reignitz, so I do a mega feudal push.


im not calling out on HRE nerf, im calling out on devs not giving abbasid / delhi option to fight back maa in feudal
mongols can counter maa with mangudai micro, i did it my self
chinese have gunpowder outposts which hurt armor, not to mention the defensive landmark

what HRE and English have in common, MAA
why english have better winrate, because most fo their games ends in feudal, with maa meat shield, and long bows picking your vils one by one, they are more effective then HRE fuedal wise
meanwhile HRE good economy can rush castle and burger MAA rush your base, it pretty much a gg
guessing you’re and HRE main, im listening to any advices you got to deal with MAA as abbasid

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Give it a try, there are different example of Abba win vs hre at high level… Twitch Video Finder – Tools – AoE4 World

I’ve noticed too and it’s because Abba does not have a counter to armored units until Castle age. We used to at least match HRE by going military wing and having camels provide +armor to the infantry so they can stand up to the MMA. When they moved that tech to imperial and buffed camel archers to compensate I don’t think they considered armored feudal units. The camel armor aura in feudal was necessary to turn spearmen into pseudo-MAA. It gave range armor too which was a necessary choice vs longbows.



The camel archer armor was overpowered in feudal that’s why it was removed. On the other hand we have units like mehter so it might be a moot point. That unit is overpowered like wise anyways though.
We need more data to assess this situation but I do think feudal MAA needs some toning down and the HRE fast castle is a separate issue, I’m not sure why it’s still a thing to rush castle in every map against every civ and spam 1 unit and win 80% of matchups.


What are everyone’s thoughts on this match-up recognizing recent and upcoming changes? As an Abbasid main, this is still one of my most difficult match-ups. There seems to be a lack options for Abbasid to deal with Feudal Age armor heavy units. The cost of Camel Archer leads to them being hard to mass…

I have been experimenting with a Feudal Age Culture Wing to power a fast castle to get crossbows. I am curious how well this would work with the addition of the Ghulams in Season 5. Do you think Season 5 camel archer changes will help with this issue and make the prolonged Feudal Age play more feasible?

I only needed one more braincell to understand that for English’s you need to build horsemen as a clear counter longbows and then fight an uphill battle in age 2. Same with Chinese, Mongols, Otto, French - you have a clear comp to build towards, even if the execution is tough.

Against HRE, there’s f*ck all you can do in practical terms. There’d be an argument if HRE could win by making ranged units to counter camel archers, but nah, braindead HRE monocomp for the win against one of the few remaining civs with hardly a counter to it.

I crunched the HRE most of the time in season 4 by going military wing to their gold, adding units non stop from their. on 1 TC for a while then adding the 2nd. Which felt strange as abbasid to dictate the game and not being reactive to others.

By the way problem here is not having a counter against man at arms at feudal not burgrave.I think having a man at arms against a civs with no man at arms and defensive landmark is very huge advantage.