Even with queuing workers you have a lot of macro and micro management.
When woodcutter has depleted tree they go back to the storage pit (does not mater if they carry 0 or 10 wood, sometimes there is trees with 0 wood)
One tree contains 45 wood. If you want your woodcutters to work at full speed you need to command them to star cutting next tree if they are not carrying full load of tree.
Hunters need to be commanded to bring the food closer to storage pit.
At the star you do have decisions to make:
If you play without seeing full map you need to choose carefully the place for dock.
If there is not enough wood close to your town center you need to think when and where to build storage pit. (close to animals, gold, stone, or just very good place between two forest.)
Exploring doesn’t take too much of a management, but it is still something to remember.
even if the queue stays there will still be difference between workers amount at 15 min.
It is not challenging to keep pressing one button at right time. Unlike dodging Catapults shots or re organizing units to keep low health units alive and healed.
That said i don’t see any good reason to have the inability to queue units.
EDIT:
I do get that if everything can be done perfectly automatically the game won’t be fun, but it does not mean that everything that can be made hard should be made hard. Making players to click at the right time without needing to think what else could i have clicked won’t make this game good.
If there is things that can only be done in one way those shouldn’t take too much time or precision.
@pate623 said:
Even with queuing workers you have a lot of macro and micro management.
When woodcutter has depleted tree they go back to the storage pit (does not mater if they carry 0 or 10 wood, sometimes there is trees with 0 wood)
One tree contains 45 wood. If you want your woodcutters to work at full speed you need to command them to star cutting next tree if they are not carrying full load of tree.
Hunters need to be commanded to bring the food closer to storage pit.
At the star you do have decisions to make:
If you play without seeing full map you need to choose carefully the place for dock.
If there is not enough wood close to your town center you need to think when and where to build storage pit. (close to animals, gold, stone, or just very good place between two forest.)
Exploring doesn’t take too much of a management, but it is still something to remember.
even if the queue stays there will still be difference between workers amount at 15 min.
It is not challenging to keep pressing one button at right time. Unlike dodging Catapults shots or re organizing units to keep low health units alive and healed.
That said i don’t see any good reason to have the inability to queue units.
EDIT:
I do get that if everything can be done perfectly automatically the game won’t be fun, but it does not mean that everything that can be made hard should be made hard. Making players to click at the right time without needing to think what else could i have clicked won’t make this game good.
If there is things that can only be done in one way those shouldn’t take too much time or precision.
you mixup two different stuff : decision to make and action to realize.
taking a decision doesnt consume time.
if you remove something time consuming you have to replace it by something else time consuming.
ok for hunting but it alrready existed and it was perfectly possible to do everything
so if you remove one mechanics time consuming without replacing it, you just make the game boring.
I’ m not agree, the most of these tasks are not funny, are tedious, if you like to spend more time in micromanagement think in another mechanics to do for the players. For example they can improve or make more intermediate ways to process the food or the basic resources. Clicking a villager in the town center when it’s finish because you don’t like the queue of rise of rome it’s not about skill, it’s an anachronism of time because if this new game don’t have a queue of production the most of gamers don’t wanna play this game. This is not an hd version it’s a remake.
@pate623 said:
Even with queuing workers you have a lot of macro and micro management.
When woodcutter has depleted tree they go back to the storage pit (does not mater if they carry 0 or 10 wood, sometimes there is trees with 0 wood)
One tree contains 45 wood. If you want your woodcutters to work at full speed you need to command them to star cutting next tree if they are not carrying full load of tree.
Hunters need to be commanded to bring the food closer to storage pit.
At the star you do have decisions to make:
If you play without seeing full map you need to choose carefully the place for dock.
If there is not enough wood close to your town center you need to think when and where to build storage pit. (close to animals, gold, stone, or just very good place between two forest.)
Exploring doesn’t take too much of a management, but it is still something to remember.
even if the queue stays there will still be difference between workers amount at 15 min.
It is not challenging to keep pressing one button at right time. Unlike dodging Catapults shots or re organizing units to keep low health units alive and healed.
That said i don’t see any good reason to have the inability to queue units.
EDIT:
I do get that if everything can be done perfectly automatically the game won’t be fun, but it does not mean that everything that can be made hard should be made hard. Making players to click at the right time without needing to think what else could i have clicked won’t make this game good.
If there is things that can only be done in one way those shouldn’t take too much time or precision.
you mixup two different stuff : decision to make and action to realize.
taking a decision doesnt consume time.
if you remove something time consuming you have to replace it by something else time consuming.
ok for hunting but it alrready existed and it was perfectly possible to do everything
so if you remove one mechanics time consuming without replacing it, you just make the game boring.
Making decisions does take time, admittedly not much, but still more than it takes to train a villager. Training a villager is not a meaningful decision. You just click two hotkeys and it’s done. There is no choice involved and it takes next to no time at all. And whether there is queueing or not it takes the exact same amount of time.
Building a dock is a good example of a meaningful decision. To build a dock, you must first decide how many villagers and which villagers you take to build it. There’s no hotkey to selecting those villagers if they are not idle, so you must search for them and select them manually. They you must place the dock. Again, there is no hotkey to directly place it to the correct spot. There are several options where to place it and choosing the right one requires some skill. And after the dock is built, you must then remember to retask the villagers and build a fishing boat at the dock. Sure, none of these steps takes much time, but all together it is much more involving and time consuming than training a villager.
After reading all the debate, i still do not understand one thing: if, as the traditionalists say, changing some aspects of the game would make aoe less “fun” ( which,btw, it’s entirely subjective ) and would make the gameplay too streamlined and repetitive,tell me.
Why in both aoe 2 and aoe 3 there are extremely pro players who can beat a noob in 10 min, instead of being all equally noobified as your posts are suggesting?
The truth is that you are just nostalgic of the old game and those old mechanics are part of that nostalgia. And do not get me wrong, I am too: that’s why we NEED classic mode with the DE and the ability to play it multiplayer. But i think the remaster should include all the features of aoe 2 that made that game (and not aoe 1) the model for all the RTS till today.
@Totalste said:
After reading all the debate, i still do not understand one thing: if, as the traditionalists say, changing some aspects of the game would make aoe less “fun” ( which,btw, it’s entirely subjective ) and would make the gameplay too streamlined and repetitive,tell me.
Why in both aoe 2 and aoe 3 there are extremely pro players who can beat a noob in 10 min, instead of being all equally noobified as your posts are suggesting?
The truth is that you are just nostalgic of the old game and those old mechanics are part of that nostalgia. And do not get me wrong, I am too: that’s why we NEED classic mode with the DE and the ability to play it multiplayer. But i think the remaster should include all the features of aoe 2 that made that game (and not aoe 1) the model for all the RTS till today.
I answer to you and all others :
age of empire IS NOT age of empire 2.
you could be exempted of such mechanics in age of empire 2 because there was a lot of ptgers things to do at the same time.
the game was much more complete.
luring the boar in 2 times exploring with the sheeps, more economical building to make more upgrades…
age of empire 2 is 80% of your time handling economy and army complexity and 20% mecanics
age of empire 1 is 50% complexity 50% mecanics
If you remove the hard mecanics part from age of empire 1 it will become
50% complexity 20% mecanics 30% nothing
the game becomes boring because there is nothing to add in exchange
the “thinking where to place the dock” is already present so it wont replace anything.
maybe for a noob he will be able to think more to others stuff, but for good player it will become boring.
and if you want to add buildings upgrade etc to age of empire 1 well sorry but its like creating a new game, its not age of empire 4, its age of empire 1 de.
or just ask for a new ageofempire 4 in the stone age century… but its out topic imho.
@Totalste said:
After reading all the debate, i still do not understand one thing: if, as the traditionalists say, changing some aspects of the game would make aoe less “fun” ( which,btw, it’s entirely subjective ) and would make the gameplay too streamlined and repetitive,tell me.
Why in both aoe 2 and aoe 3 there are extremely pro players who can beat a noob in 10 min, instead of being all equally noobified as your posts are suggesting?
What we’re saying is that micromanaging the economy (like managing farms or workers) is what makes AoE special. If you streamline that what you end up with is something like Red Alert, a pure military spam game where almost no attention to the base is needed.
Remeber that Age of Empires is not just a multiplayer game, it is a singleplayer game too. And for casual players or just regular singleplayer people it is fun to manage your base. That’s why people have been playing singleplayer random maps in Age of Empires for over a decade without getting bored. People don’t play singleplayer skrimish in red alert or starcraft much because there is no complex base managment to keep you interested. Age of Empires success has always been it’s more complicated villager/base managment mechanics compared to other rts games - thats why so many people from so many walks of life (hardcore gamer kid or grandma) enjoy it. Streamlining mechanics kills this advantage and sets the focus on fast military play only, this is why aoe3 with it’s infinite farms and automatic village gathering diddn’t gel with the causal crowd like aoe1/2 did.
I would never buy a game without queue villagers, without atta mouv, without rali point, without all that exist in modern rts to make the game more fun and not just tedious.
Aoe1 original gameplay is bad, just bad, not fun, baaaad, why aoe1 community is practically non-existent? All other aoe serie have more active community?
But its maybe Microsoft fault, they want what exactly? aoe1 with new skin or a game with a real community?
@Amphiprion said:
I would never buy a game without queue villagers, without atta mouv, without rali point, without all that exist in modern rts to make the game more fun and not just tedious.
Aoe1 original gameplay is bad, just bad, not fun, baaaad, why aoe1 community is practically non-existent? All other aoe serie have more active community?
But its maybe Microsoft fault, they want what exactly? aoe1 with new skin or a game with a real community?
you keep repeating same nonsense.
age of empire1 community is non active because its been 20years old. and by this time there was not internet connection to play multiplayer…
but age of empire 1 is far better than the 3.
and if you dont like the age of empire 1 maybe you should go to another game
no one is against rally point.
some are against queuing.
majority of people is against farm automatic rebuild
no one is extremist but there is stuff that bring something more to the game (rally point)
and stuff that remove something.
im not against improvment for example i think that tree should contains more wood for longer game.
@GepardenKalle said:
What we’re saying is that micromanaging the economy (like managing farms or workers) is what makes AoE special. If you streamline that what you end up with is something like Red Alert, a pure military spam game where almost no attention to the base is needed.
Remeber that Age of Empires is not just a multiplayer game, it is a singleplayer game too. And for casual players or just regular singleplayer people it is fun to manage your base. That’s why people have been playing singleplayer random maps in Age of Empires for over a decade without getting bored. People don’t play singleplayer skrimish in red alert or starcraft much because there is no complex base managment to keep you interested. Age of Empires success has always been it’s more complicated villager/base managment mechanics compared to other rts games - thats why so many people from so many walks of life (hardcore gamer kid or grandma) enjoy it. Streamlining mechanics kills this advantage and sets the focus on fast military play only, this is why aoe3 with it’s infinite farms and automatic village gathering diddn’t gel with the causal crowd like aoe1/2 did.
I’m glad that Aoe it’s not like red alert and i want this to remain the same…i still don’t see how adding gates or villager garrison would alter the essence of aoe 1.
And btw do not get me started with aoe 3…it was just wrong
@Tgaud said:
I answer to you and all others :
age of empire IS NOT age of empire 2.
you could be exempted of such mechanics in age of empire 2 because there was a lot of ptgers things to do at the same time.
the game was much more complete.
luring the boar in 2 times exploring with the sheeps, more economical building to make more upgrades…
age of empire 2 is 80% of your time handling economy and army complexity and 20% mecanics
age of empire 1 is 50% complexity 50% mecanics
If you remove the hard mecanics part from age of empire 1 it will become
50% complexity 20% mecanics 30% nothing
the game becomes boring because there is nothing to add in exchange
the “thinking where to place the dock” is already present so it wont replace anything.
maybe for a noob he will be able to think more to others stuff, but for good player it will become boring.
and if you want to add buildings upgrade etc to age of empire 1 well sorry but its like creating a new game, its not age of empire 4, its age of empire 1 de.
or just ask for a new ageofempire 4 in the stone age century… but its out topic imho.
Aoe 2 is an upgrade of aoe ROR, which was an upgrade of the original. They are using the same engine, art style, gameplay etc…so you can’t say they are not related. The main reason why aoe playstyle is so much different from the one of its successor are the “more things to do” that you just listed ( apart from the boar;we all know elephant luring from the first one ) and some upgraded mechanics. I don’t want the DE to rape the original: i just wish for two separate modes, classic and remaster, both available for multiplayer. This way everybody is happy and once in a while the 20 $ we will be forced to spend to get this new remaster will be worth it.
@Tgaud said:
we need a critical mass of player to make the multiplayer ladder live. im not sure splitting community intp 2 dofferents games is the good answer.
Well, there will be separate classic and definitive modes in the game, although I’m also a bit worried about splitting the playerbase. Still, I think it’s or the better.
From my point of view there is a lack of units and micro-gestion in fight.
I mean in the 3rd you have canon good vs infantry, cavalry good vs canon but some infantry good vs cavalry and …
There is a lack of units. If i remember well all civilisation have the same units (nearly all) . You haven’t as the 2nd and 3rd lot of units and specialisation. I mean civilisation as Russian rush bad infantry but a huge number of them or France which plays defensive until GENDARME…
And it gave me a lot of fun because i had to adpat my self to my opponent, here it’s just 6/7 units even in starcraft 2 you have more …
@Tgaud said:
we need a critical mass of player to make the multiplayer ladder live. im not sure splitting community intp 2 dofferents games is the good answer.
Well, there will be separate classic and definitive modes in the game, although I’m also a bit worried about splitting the playerbase. Still, I think it’s or the better.
I that confirmed? I though it was only classic graphics as a seperate option, not a classic gamemode entierly.
@Tgaud said:
we need a critical mass of player to make the multiplayer ladder live. im not sure splitting community intp 2 dofferents games is the good answer.
Well, there will be separate classic and definitive modes in the game, although I’m also a bit worried about splitting the playerbase. Still, I think it’s or the better.
I that confirmed? I though it was only classic graphics as a seperate option, not a classic gamemode entierly.
It’s confirmed here:
Classic and definitive game modes will differ both in terms of graphics and gameplay.
@Tgaud said:
we need a critical mass of player to make the multiplayer ladder live. im not sure splitting community intp 2 dofferents games is the good answer.
Well, there will be separate classic and definitive modes in the game, although I’m also a bit worried about splitting the playerbase. Still, I think it’s or the better.
yes but it will be an “old version” with not even new graphical.
so its just symbolic. no one will really play it.
i want a new graphical version who respect the old gameplay.
something in the middle.
and not a 20years version on one side and a new ageofempire4 version with new units and gameplay on the other hand
@qweytr24 said:
Classic and definitive game modes will differ both in terms of graphics and gameplay.
A shame, I was hoping we could get to play the new features with the original graphics. I feel the new graphics lack color and crispness even if the artsyle is good, it makes the overall picture a bit dull and hard to follow.
@qweytr24 said:
Classic and definitive game modes will differ both in terms of graphics and gameplay.
A shame, I was hoping we could get to play the new features with the original graphics. I feel the new graphics lack color and crispness even if the artsyle is good, it makes the overall picture a bit dull and hard to follow.
maybe they can put a graphical option “extra lowa” with omd graphics ahahah
no one is against rally point.
some are against queuing.
And why to agree with rally point and not with queuing? Rally point alterning a lot the game play too. Your argument is falacious because totaly selective. Sometimes, you say that altering the charm but sometimes not.
age of empire1 community is non active because its been 20years old. and by this time there was not internet >connection to play multiplayer
Aoe2 is active and the original multiplayer is the same as aoe1. Why aoe2 growth her community and not aoe1?
) and some upgraded mechanics. I don’t want the DE to rape the original: i just wish for two separate modes, classic and remaster, both available for multiplayer. This way everybody is happy and once in a while the 20 $ we will be forced to spend to get this new remaster will be worth it.
