Greetings to all forum members. As the post indicates, this is a space to discuss various viewpoints regarding the new expansion for AoE III.
As many here have likely noticed, this new expansion introduces two new civilizations—the Poles and the Danes—and adds two new native factions and one new royal house across the 25 new maps. There will also be two new game modes (Regicide and Independence), and—last but not least—new historical and challenge maps. However, while all of this sounds quite appealing and interesting, we will run into a minor issue upon the DLC’s release: the limited amount of native faction and royal house content. You see, even though the rest of the DLC offers enough content for an expansion, the failure to add more native factions and royal houses will eventually undermine its replayability; in fact, I give it two months before the expansion loses its appeal for this very reason. What kept AoE III alive for so long was the Knights of the Mediterranean DLC, which featured numerous royal houses and excellent European and historical maps. In other words, the Baltic Powers DLC should have followed that same formula to ensure the new content had more longevity—at least until new content arrives next year, if it ever does. Honestly, I think the developers were too limited in adding only three minor native factions spread across 25 new maps, especially considering Knights of the Mediterranean featured nine well-structured royal houses—a number that, in my view, was perfectly balanced to provide great replayability across the various European maps. As for the new Arctic maps? I simply don’t know for sure, given that all of them will feature the same two native factions (Sami and Inuit)—and to make matters worse, the former are incredibly bland and offer only a single unit. While the House of Stuart certainly complements some of the European and Canadian maps, I don’t think it’s enough for a DLC of this nature. Let’s be honest: the subject of native peoples really should have been addressed in this new DLC—at the very least to ensure greater cultural diversity at the trading posts. Otherwise, the maps won’t quite capture the excitement the developers originally intended; instead, they risk feeling a bit odd due to the lack of diverse native groups distributed across those trading posts.
In conclusion, I believe the developers should have added more native factions for the Arctic maps—and at least three new European royal houses—to ensure the new DLC has greater longevity. I would like to think the developers will take these kinds of requests into account, whether at the DLC’s launch or later on by adding more native content to the new maps. After all, playing these new maps with the same three native factions will be a real headache; ultimately, we’ll likely end up ignoring trading posts in favor of other strategies, thereby overlooking the very feature that was supposed to be the main draw of the new maps: the new native factions.
I am attaching some photographs that could help improve the Sámi settlements for the addition of new units.
I would like to take this opportunity to offer some suggestions on how to address the absence of native peoples on the new Canadian maps. For instance, the developers could rework the Nootka natives; I have noticed that they are not particularly well-represented on these maps, so I believe this is the perfect chance to redesign this minor native faction from scratch, allowing the American Arctic maps to truly shine. I have attached some photos below that the developers can use as a reference for this rework.
Units:
Nootka Villager: (Gathers food from berries and animals 15% faster than Settlers. Nootka Villager limit: 10).
Nootka Canoe: (An exclusive canoe of the Nootka people. It gathers food from fish and gold from whales 10% faster than fishing boats, and also features a 16-point arrow attack to defend against enemy ships).
No opino lo mismo. Creo que el numero de nativos agregados es correcto tratandose de estos territorios inospitos. Incomparable con el DLC con territorios europeos etnicamente complejos. 25 mapas lo veo un premio muy generoso, pudieron ser solo 5. Con futuros DLC obtendremos mas mapas con mucho mas diversidad de nativos menores. Asia, Africa y oceanía son territorios muy ricos
al menos podrían reelaborar a los nativos americanos, los inuit tienen el botón grande de habilidad al igual que los nativos europeos, pero los demás nativos americanos no lo tienen. los desarrolladores podrían empezar agregando ese tipo de cosas a los puestos comerciales nativos americanos para equilibrar la balanza con sus contrapartes europeas. no lo se pero algo deben de hacer en los mapas americanos una vez lanzado el DLC del báltico para que no se sientan tan desequilibrados los nativos de america en comparación con los nativos europeos
suponiendo que no deban agregar mas nativos en las regiones árticas por lo desolado de dichas tierras aun así podrían agregar mas casas reales al resto de los mapas europeos, aun hay bastantes casas reales las cuales aun no están representadas, por ejemplo aun hace falta una casa real para Portugal, Holanda, Italia y la casa real de Osmán para los otomanos
Also, the adjective should always come first, so it should be Nootka Villager and Nootka Baskets, not Villager Nootka and Basket Nootka (And maybe “Basket Weaving” would be better than just “Basket?”)
Yeah I think they might as well give powers to every minor civ, if they’re willing to give it to one (1) American-style one.
And Asia deserves American/African-style Natives as well (maybe even Royal Houses), especially the far east that is as of yet underrepresented. For example, they could get Koryaks, Evenkis, Ainus and Nivkhs.
Edit: I don’t know why I specified far east. All of Asia is underrepresented, in both maps and minor civs. Same for South America.
The number of new natives is perfectly fine. The problem is adding way too many low quality maps. Lots of them don’t even have natives at all or even the possibility of having natives as they are nothing more than remote desolate islands.
This isn’t really the case, Cree and Oldenburg fit with many of them. And some have Tengri (though incorrectly).
No they do not compliment Canadian maps, they are entirely inappropriate there and detract from the actual natives that lived there. When exactly did the house of Stuart hold their court in Canada? Oh right, it was never. If merely being a colony of a monarch is all it takes to plop down a royal house in a map then Habsburgs should be appearing on all basically of the Americas south of Mexico (though they would legitimately fit for Mexico specifically as there actually was a Mexican Habsburg Emperor). Even Nova Scotia should have Bourbons because the French were operating there long before they got genocided and replaced with Scots. Or you know, they could actually add the natives that live there like the Wabanaki (or Mi’kmaq more specifically).
There is however, one missing native faction that could have really been a good fit for these maps; the Basques. They operated as Whalers across the North Atlantic and were very likely in the Americas before Columbus. At the start of the whaling industry basically all nations just hired Basques to do it so they’d fit on basically all the desolate north Atlantic Islands and Canadian east coast.
Perhaps they didn’t inhabit it as such, but were these areas known to them?
Well, considering the Jesuits are on maps of places they’re not originally from, I don’t see a problem with some royal houses being in places where they aren’t the hosts.
That’s why I think the term “minor faction” is better than “native.” It’s much more practical for implementing this game mechanic without necessarily being originally from that place.
So, the right move would have been to add one or two more native settlements to the Canadian and Antarctic maps to ensure greater diversity; that way, there wouldn’t be any repetition or incorrect native settlements on certain maps in the game.
Danes should have been in the original game they were a colonial power with colonies in new world (Unlike Poland or Italy), and many maps are in the areas where Inuits were but they were never a minor civ…It just seems to me that it’s just fixing things so that things are right.
No, the right move would have been to not do half of the maps in the first place. There really aren’t any that are bad solely because they’re omitting an obvious native site.
I honestly feel that all the Native American factions should be reworked; it’s the best course of action, given that many contain historical inaccuracies or use outdated, incorrect models that fail to reflect the actual indigenous peoples of the Americas. For instance, the Seminole used firearms rather than the bows suggested by the game, and the “Shark Archer” unit is essentially made up; the Huron faction also suffers from numerous inaccuracies. Furthermore, most Native American settlements can only produce a single unit type, whereas European native settlements can produce two or three, resulting in a disproportionate disadvantage for the Native American factions—which also lack the “Big Button” ability. For these reasons and more, the Native American factions deserve a rework.
This is how Native Americans should be represented to ensure historical accuracy in the game. Certain units would need to have their attributes adjusted—switching, for instance, from bows to muskets, or from muskets to spears, depending on the specific Native unit and the weapon they actually used. The goal is to move away from the fantasy and fiction introduced by Ensemble Studios in 2005—whether due to insufficient research into each nation’s history or a lack of available documentation on the early internet. In any case, reworking the minor Native American factions should be a priority and ought to be implemented at some point; doing so would significantly strengthen the historical authenticity of each Native nation and accord them the respect they deserve for their presence in the game.
I admire the rigor you bring to historical representation. And the posts you keep putting out along those lines, with illustrations, are useful for those who love this game partly for its historical flavor. That said, I believe that since 2023 and the “fashion day” update, creating new assets to increase historical accuracy is no longer a priority.
First of all, because the game suffers from a lack of readability in combat that’s inherent to the ever-growing number of unique skins and new civilizations. I also think I saw in one of your posts that you were asking for certain generic units, like the musketeer or the skirmisher, to get a new look because of this or that, because this civilization historically did such and such, etc. I think that’s a bad thing. The balance is already very uncertain between generic units (which are increasingly becoming uniques as they turn into royal guard units with new skins, like the Danish civilization, which is a very bad idea) and unique units, which are often only unique in appearance! That adds to the confusion around a unit’s actual value and role. The moment has passed for chasing historical exhaustiveness, which will never be achieved anyway; the priority now should be restoring overall harmony in unit roles.
I think simplifying unit counters, as well as the stats for each unit stance, is more than necessary today. In Age of Empires 2, you know very quickly who does what. Whereas in Age of Empires 3, you often have to glance at the interface to remember a unit’s role, and also to gauge its “floating value” in combat. And that takes time compared to the instinctive approach to picking your army in Age of Empires 2/4.
Simplifying and making everything more coherent should be the priority today.
Just because they used firearms doesn’t mean they didn’t also use bows. And there apparently are Seminole shark tooth arrowheads so no it isn’t made up. Not sure what exactly you think is wrong with Huron either.
Sure they could they use an update, but there’s no disadvantage to be had because they aren’t competing with each other.
The Jesuits went to the remotest places and actually lived with the natives. Traipsing through the jungles of the South American or Southeast Asia and finding Jesuits is not really surprising. By contrast, finding Black Brunswickers as native inhabitants of a Caribbean island is ridiculous.
I understand you, and there is some truth to what you’re saying. My intention is simply to improve the historical accuracy regarding the native factions in AoE III; I feel it’s a matter of respect for those cultures, as they are part of our history and also part of humanity’s heritage. Besides, AoE III is a game based on real history—we aren’t talking about AoM: Retold—so I see nothing wrong with asking for a bit more historical precision, which I believe is well-deserved for Native American cultures.
The issue lies in the fact that the Seminole people stopped using bows in the 17th century and began using firearms in the early 18th century; consequently, equipping the Seminole with such archaic weapons is a historical inaccuracy from the get-go. I reiterate, therefore, that the game contains far too many historical inaccuracies regarding the attire and weaponry of these Native American groups.
It isn’t a matter of Native Americans competing—or having to compete—with European factions; the reality is staring us right in the face. How is it possible that a European Trading Post resembles a mini-civilization, complete with powerful units and a special ability button, while Native American factions have limited technologies, most offer only a single unit at the Trading Post, and they lack that “Big Button” ability? We aren’t just talking about competitive play here; we are talking about fairness and parity to ensure a true balance in the game, whether playing as a European or a Native American faction.
If you play the game, there is no such thing as “lack of readibility”, the more you play, the more you know, the rotten argument of the Age2 players doesn’t hold up here.
All the unit’s data is there; there are cards and techs that can modify that. That’s why you explore before engage, play to be good, don’t complain just because you don’t care to read.
NGL I’m getting sick and tired that every time I want to play a match in a random map it always loads european ones. This is just gonna get worse with the DLC.
Colonization of the Americas lmao I’m lucky if Pampas Sierras loads once every 20 games or so.
