Abus Gun Simple Rework - Most Sensible and Thought Out Suggestion

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

Bring Abus base damage down to 36.

In exchange, do the following:

  • Increase the attack speed/decrease the reload time back to 3s. This will bring much-needed synergy back.
  • Make multiplier against light cavalry 1.75x instead of 1.5x. This will make Abus slightly better against goons, which they are supposed to counter, while not breaking the game in any way. The 50% damage reduction to ALL Cavalry will remain untouched, so what this really amounts to is instead of doing .75x damage to goons, they do .87x damage to them.

So, 36 base damage and 1.5x against heavy infantry is 54.

This means, at base stats:

  • It will take now 3 hits to kill a Russian musketeer for a total of 9 seconds, instead of 7 seconds (original base damage was 40 x 1.5 = 60, killing them in two 3.5s shots).
  • It will still take 3 shots to kill regular musketeers for a total of 9 seconds (instead of 10.5s), however any HP upgrades on regular musketeers will now require another fire to die, rewarding the upgrade more.
  • Enemy Janissaries will still take 4 hits to die. 54 x 4 = 216, for a total of 12s instead of 14s.
  • Ashigaru will now die in 4 hits instead of 3, which equals 12 seconds instead of 10.5s.
  • Sepoy will now die in 4 hits instead of 3, which again equals 12 seconds total instead of 10.5s.

After all of this, Abus will still be:

  • Horrible at actual sieging of buildings
  • Horrible at sniping villagers
  • Very vulnerable to hand cav
  • Very vulnerable to artillery
  • Having a large melee hitbox, being more vulnerable to literally anything in melee than any other unit
  • A low HP per pop unit
  • A high pop unit
  • An expensive unit especially for the Ottoman eco

So this honestly makes a lot of sense.

Thoughts?

1 Like
2

Changes to abus will likely come with some ottoman card rework, like they did with British.

2 Likes
3

Yep, not sure what civ will be next but as they mentioned haud and lakota customizations I’d imagine it’d be those two, at a later date we’ll probably see some otto changes.

4

I understand that but wanted to showcase this way to the devs as the best way to address the issue rather than through a card rework.

5

this is actually nearly exactly the suggestion i had made some time ago. My additional suggestion was to make “light artillery hitpoints” an age 3 card and be 25% hp to grens and abus (from 25% grens but only 15% to abus). I think they should do base damage to goons, not 0.87 but that’s a fairly small amount different

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6

If they did base damage it could be too much because they already negate the dragoons ranged resist due to the abus doing siege damage. Especially if they got a fire rate buff as many people want.

7

see, i have to disagree here. Abus are supposed to counter goons. with them being less effective against infantry i think it is both reasonable and necessary for abus to actually counter ranged cavalry. a normal skirm does about 22ish dmg to a goon, so a 2 pop skirm doing 36 is more than reasonable, even with armour its still (very slightly) less pop effective

2 Likes
8

Lets also remember that not all dragoon type units have range restistance. For example Cavalry Archers do have melee resistance instead of RR. In combat against Cavalry Archers siege damage doesn’t make any difference because Skirmishers and archers bypasses it too.

Here Abus Guns are even little worse. Age II Skirmisher deals 22,5 damage to Cavalry Archer while Age II Abus Gun deals only 30 damage having less range, less RoF and costs 2 pop.

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9

Cavalry archers have higher HP to compensate while the goons get lower HP but range resist. Completely negating the range resist is therefore quite strong. However I did forget that the abus is 2 pop so it might be ok. I’m wary of buffing the abus because on legacy it was ridiculously good if I remember correctly and even a small change could make it OP again. It does need something though because for a 2 pop unit it’s definitely underperforming overall.

2 Likes
10

on TAD they were quite good against standard dragoons - with 30rr at the time (dragoons i mean) - with a full 40dmg. They were, however, entirely outgunned by units like eagle runners and ruyters that outnumber drastically and snowball hard. Its a longstanding issue, unfortunately.

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11

As every discussion needs some triggered idiot just complaining about things, i stand up.

For me:
Otto is a joke right now and maybe it sounds unfair… But the Devs know that and just troll Otto Players.

In Vanilla and TAD AOEIII Otto doctrine was clearly Artillery Focused. Everyone knew the real potential lays in the Artillery Foundry as Abus were OP and Grens their royal guard Unit + Bombards that could delete any Infantry Army the Opp. could throw at you. Oh and the crazy vanilla Jans (100Food/25Coin versus 75 Food / 25 Coin for a Musket) And we all know the only reasons Ottomans have atleast a Barrack is, because they need a Cav + Meele Block for its Artillery (Abus/Canons). Without being only relied on Cav.

Weak starting Eco, weaker late Game Eco with only expensive Units, which are in every part slightly better than their Non Otto counterpart… early decision making was the key. That made the Ottomans to an unique Civ. Which some loved, other hated. And thats cool.

It was and still is easy to play, but hard to master. But for now there is no reason in mastering the Ottos, because as for me an all-time Otto main. There is nothing rewarding playing Otto.

All new Civs have everything, focused Army, Time focused Eco and the right Cards for the Deck for any Gameplay.

But what does Otto have now?
Its Unique Bonus, it cool Unique Unit Names. An easier mid game Eco (With no real reason (well actually the reasoning is balance), slightly cheaper Jans, that are BS without right working Abus.

And as i said, not working Abus. Yeah they were op, yeah not everyone knew what to do against them. As sometimes you really couldnt. And goodjob nerfing them, But so many people forget, that the Janissaries got nerfed as well! And thats just stupid. The only reason Janis were stronger, is to protect your army from Meele + Ranged threats for your Artillery. But now you have some slightly better Heavy Infantry with nothing else.

Why did they even give the Otto an eco Boost with these additional Settler cards and price adjustments in cost of its main playstyle…?

Where is the Artillery focus?
Why does it still take to train:
Musketeer = 30Secs vs. Janis = 34Secs vs. Sepoy = 34Secs
Skirmirshers + Cassadors = 33Secs vs. Abus = 44Secs

Dont get me wrong, as i still play. Otto is a solid Civ and as a experienced Player, there is nothing broken with the Ottos. You can fill big gaps with the right Deck Cards. But why am i forced to pick that cards, just to balance the game? Before i saw such a great variety of Decks, but now its only Meta. And thats not AOEIII for me. Every Civ should be playable in every way you want it for yourself, with unique approaches and tactics.
I know nothing of the things i just wrote will advance this discussion nor bring anything new in it.As the Devs add more and more Civs and always adjust them, with other recently adjusted Civs and never even consider to think about the Ottos, i feel forgotton and that makes me just sad.

Just wait, the next card coming for the Ottos will be:
-Age IV ,Abus changes ROF from 3.5 to 3.0´´

and that it for the devs.

2 Likes
12

remember that ottos jans and abus as they exist on DE were the result of the EP patch and havent been adjusted since. They are not in any way comparable to the new civs because, well, they were balanced for high level tournament play on TAD. I expect they will be adjusted shortly, otto just hasn’t had its time to be worked on yet. Especially with a new DLC confirmed I think we just have to be patient. At least we got infinite spahi which was a BIG help to the ottomans generally. Id expect abus to be patched back up and probably 3 new cards just like brits and aztec have gotten

1 Like
13

I am pretty sure ottoman don’t lack strategy diversity right now. The problem with simply handing them buffs is that their eco bonus is way too good. Whatever buffs come their way, it has to be late game only.

14

Nobody is asking for big buffs, just a small rework to help with synergy - an aspect no other civ lacks with their ranged infantry combos.

And an eco or unit buff would be very slight and likely targeting late-game. The “starting momentum” of Ottos does not offset the eco spiraling downwards past 6 minutes compared to any other civ (yes, even Lakota, which actually has an excellent eco at all stages of the game contrary to what people want to believe).

A competent player will squash a Janissary rush as it is the least forgiving and dies down harder than any other. But still nobody is asking to buff that aspect particularly.

I would suggest the Alcemi Olan School in Age IV also increase HP, Attack, and speed of Jans by 5% as an example of a late-game small buff.