Add something new to the current tech tree

Disclaimer: I am not claiming that any of this must be added to the game, nor am I certain that it will all be balanced. I just personally think these fit player needs or make for interesting changes.

For new technologies:

In the Barrack:

  • Fencing School, or Swordsmanship School (IV)
    Requires Gambesons (or maybe not). The Militia line upgrades are researched instantly (or very quickly), and the Militia line units gain +1 attack.
    People would no longer need to wait the upgrades so long when they need to or want to use the Militia line. Even if they have been upgraded they could still have more attack.

  • Military Drums (II)
    Infantry gain +10% speed. The prerequisite of Squires, and the Squires changed to give +10% speed to only the Militia line .
    The faster Champions would clearly be more useful.
    The Celts might have the Military Drums line provide +50% effect instead of the +15% speed.

  • Sack (IV)
    Requires Arson. The Militia line units generate a few gold when attacking buildings.
    Attract people to use the Militia line in the late game.

In the Stable:

  • Caparison, or Saddletree
    Split the Bloodlines into Caparison/Saddletree (II) → Bloodlines (III) or Bloodlines (II) → Caparison/Saddletree (III). Both each provides +10 HP to mounted units.
    The Scout Cavalry could gain 10 HP at a lower price, which would be helpful against the Franks’ Scout Cavalry and also avoid the overly strong 20 HP in the Feudal Age.
    In the Middle Ages, caparisons were part of the horse armor known as barding and adopted by the Crusaders. Many peoples around the world had similar equivalent as horse covers.
    Saddles are an equipment revolution just like stirrups, and the development of solid saddletree has a significant impact on horse health.

  • Jousting (IV)
    Requires Paladin upgrade. Paladins gain +20 HP.
    Meanwhile, the base HP of Knight line would be adjusted to 100 (Knight) → 120 (Cavalier) → 140 (Paladin), which is to beautifully make the difference uniform to 20 and to make the Paladin upgrade cheaper.
    The Franks Paladins would have 188 HP at most, or we could make the Jousting provide 24 HP particularly for Franks.

  • Mahouts (IV)
    Requires Husbandry (or maybe not). Elephant units (or only Battle Elephants) gain +10% speed (or even faster).

In the Archery Range:

  • Shooting Targets (II)
    Split the Thumb Ring into Shooting Targets → Thumb Ring (III). The Shooting Target should be cheap, fast researched and available to every civ as it just provides 100% accuracy.
    If possible, the Thumb Ring could be renamed into Quivers, Advanced Quivers or Improved Quivers to reflect the faster rate of fire it providing.
    The Thumb Ring is actually there to protect the archer’s fingers rather than make the archer fire faster, so in the game maybe it could be a cheap technology providing like +5 HP to archer units (except for gunpowder units) between Shooting Targets and Quivers or after Quivers. But people are used to the association of Thumb Ring with rate of fire so that might not be going to happen.

  • Windlass (IV)
    Requires Arbalester upgrade. Arbalesters gain +18% rate of fire.
    Meanwhile, the base rate of fire of Arbalesters would be adjusted to 18% less than the current, which is to slow down the power growth of when just hitting the Arbalester upgrade, while also the Arbalester upgrade could be a little cheaper in exchange.
    This might not be really needed but personally I feel the power of the fast Imperial Arbalesters should be a little eased so the Windlass could take long (like 50 secs) for research.

  • Javelins (II)
    Have this technology unlock the bonus of skirmisher units against spearman units to slightly slowed down the heavy use of Skirmishers in the Feudal Age.

In the University:

  • Motte-and-bailey (III)
    The Watch Towers line costs -25 stone. Preferably not (even if possible) the prerequisite of Arrowslits.
    Based on Motte-and-bailey castle - Wikipedia, and Inspired by @Horapallas’s Outpost Network.
    The motte-and-bailey defensive constructions are relatively easy to build with unskilled labour, but still militarily formidable.

  • Catapults (IV)
    A pretty cheap prerequisite of Siege Engineers. Allows the Mangonels line and Trebuchets to destroy trees and berry bushes with the splash damage. Maybe also allows the Scorpion line to destroy trees and berry bushes like the Ballista Elephants.
    This could allow every civ to have fair capability to clear a path in the maps like Black Forest, particularly for the Turks.
    Maybe it could also be the prerequisite of the Dromon, if its immediate availability when just hitting the Imeprial Age is considered powerful. It’s a unit supposed to be equivalent to Cannon Galleon but it doesn’t even need to wait the Chemistry.

In the Blacksmith:

  • Matchlock (IV)
    Requires Chemistry. Foot cannoneer units and mounted cannoneer units gain +15% accuracy and/or train +20% faster.
    The button slot below the Hand Cannoneer is already used by the Genitour and its upgrade, so the Matchlock must be moved to another building.

In the Monastery:

  • Sermon, or Preaching (III)
    Split the Redemption into Sermon/Preaching → Redemption. The Sermon/Preaching allows Monks to convert buildings, and the Redemption becomes only to allow them to convert siege weapons. So the civs that don’t have Redemption may have a chance to have Sermon/Preaching.

In the Dock:

  • Bulkhead Compartment (III)
  • Compass (IV)
    Split the Careening → Dry Dock with them. The Careening and Dry Dock become only provide +5 and +10 capacity, so that they (at least Careening) might be supposed to be available to every civ.
    The Bulkhead Compartment and Compass provide +1 pierce armor and +15% speed respectively. Some civ could have only Bulkhead Compartment, some could have only Compass, some could have both, and some could have neither.
    These bring more flexible balancing tools to the water game.

In the TC:

  • Town Defense (IV)
    Requires Town Patroll. TCs gain +2 attack (or more).
    The Town Patroll could also allow TCs to gain +1 attack to encourage people to research it.
    The whole line could cost no gold.

In the Castle:

  • Moat (III)
    Split the Hoardings into Moat → Hoardings. Both each provides 50% of the original effect of the Hoardings. The Moat could be available to every civ.

For the new units:

  • Scout InfantryLight InfantryShock Infantry
    Basically a rename and reskin of the current Eagles, making them a little more versatile to apply to non-Aztec or even non-American civilizations like Bantu Africans.

  • Eagle Warrior and Elite Eagle Warrior
    The Aztecs could have them as unique upgrades that replace the Light Infantry and Shock Infantry. The Eagle Warrior might have +5 HP than the Light Infantry, and the Elite Eagle Warrior might have +10 HP and +1 pierce armor than the Shock Infantry.

  • Chasqui
    The Incas could have it as trainable/untrainable unique precursor to the Scout Infantry in the Dark Age, or having it directly replacing the Scout Infantry as unique precursor to the Light Infantry.

The list below is going to replace the least used Champions since the civs have high quality infantry UU that can defeat the fully upgraded generic Champion. Even if the Militia line can be fully improved, they may still lose the opportunity to be used due to the superior infantry UUs. So, The following may go further than the above ideas and may all be unnecessary.

  • Aztecs: Butterfly Warrior, or Papalotl Warrior
    Unique upgrade that replaces the Long Swordsman (and the elite raplaces the Two-Handed Swordsman and Champion).
    With lower base attack but a attack bonus against cavalry. Although the bonus is lower than the Spearman line, it would be better able to face a variety of situations.
    The papalotl (lit. butterfly) warriors were the third type of elite warrior to feature an explicitly animal theme. The member of them had taken three captives until he captured the fourth and were promoted to a jaguar warriors.

  • Vikings: Shieldman, or Ulfhedinn/Jofurr
    Unique upgrade that replaces the Long Swordsman (and the elite raplaces the Two-handed Swordsman and Champion).
    A Nordic warrior holding a round shield and wearing a wolf coat (Ulfhednar) or a boar helmet (Jofurr), having lower attack but higher pierce armor than the Long Swordsman.
    I personally prefer to name it Jofurr rather than Ulfhedinn, because it is easier to pronounce and the worship of wild boars is more unique than the worship of wolves. The theme of boar could also refer to the Svinfylking formation.

  • Teutons: Landsknecht
    Unique upgrade that replaces the Two-Handed Swordsman and Champion.
    Has lower melee armor than the Champion, but has a charge bar for dealing a blast attack by slashing in a wide area (without additional damage), so that it might be good at against archers and spearmen.

  • Japanese: Odachi/Nagamaki Swordsman, or J¡zamurai (lit. local samurai)
    Unique upgrade that replaces the Two-Handed Swordsman and Champion.
    Using a odachi, nagamaki or katana sword with two hands, it could receive -50% damage from siege weapons and have bonus against them.
    It can be named into a more general name after a kind of weapon like odachi or nagamaki, or into a more specific name after a feudal warrior class like the J¡zamurai.
    Roughly classify feudal classes of the samurai, from top to bottom: Shogun, the top military rulers → (Shugo) Daimyo, the feudal lords or governors → K0kυjin or Kunibito, the local masters.
    The j¡zamurai were yeoman-like local gentries from the peasant class, essentially farmers who did military service as and when required. Peasants could not become samurai but as powerful farmers with some say and influence in vellage affairs they loyally served to the k0kυjin and this relation granted them the lowest status of samurai even though no fiefs.

(The ‘¡’ is ‘i’ and the ‘0’ is ‘o’. I really don’t know why it censors the key historical terms…)

  • Sicilians: Vavasseur (Vavasour)
    Replaces the current Serjeant as the UU in Castles, and the Serjeant replaces the Man-at-Arms as the unique upgrade, like Militia → Apprentice Serjeant → Serjeant → Elite Serjeant.
    The Militia could be automatically upgraded to Apprentice Serjeant, and the Apprentice Serjeant could be quickly upgraded to Serjeant at a very cheap price.
    The Serjeant could still build Donjons and be trained in Donjons, but the Militia cannot.
    The Donjons could train Serjeant line, Ram line and Siege Tower instead of Spearman line.
    The Vavasour could build Castles (affected by the fast building bonus) and Donjons, and could have an capability to boost nearby Serjeants’ rate of building.
    Of the ‘military’ ranks in Norman Social Organisation and Feudalism, the lowest rank was the Sergens, a professional footsoldier, literally ‘one who serves’. Above the Sergens was the Vavasseur, a soldier who equated to a squire, and who would have probably served a particular knight.

No Siege Workshop tech? I thought everybody would welcome a scorpion ballistic tech.

Some kind of Jousting tech would be cool, but I’m not sure if it could be feasibly added without further buffing Knights, which don’t need a buff.

I updated the post. Welcome to check.

The scorpion ballistic is the identity of Romans in my opinion so probably no way.
Splitting destroying trees from the Onager upgrade is the only thing I think is fine for general improvement to siege weapons, although I put it in the University instead of Siege Workshop.

I updated the post. Welcome to check.

Frankly speaking, I have conceived of a tech based on jousting, but I didn’t include it in the list at first since I thought people may not like that it might particularly have a different effect for the Franks.

Prefer if this was against some types of buildings given the name and reduced base training time instead of just upgrade time.

Maybe generate gold only when they destroy buildings except walls.

This is an amazing change and will help a lot with balance. Some strong eco non-cavalry civs could lose the 2nd upgrade to limit their knight play potential.

Another great tech suggestion. No need of special change for Franks, 188 hp is still good enough to buy an extra hit from other melee units, halbs. Malian heavy camels alone will kill them one hit sooner compared to now.
Additionally I’d recommend doing something for halbs, camels to increase their bonus damage against mounted units. Otherwise it makes cav civs weak and paladin upgrade too expensive for its worth. (Ideally a tech which gives +4 damage for heavy camels and reduce base bonus damage of heavy camels vs cav to 14 from 18, likewise another tech for halbs which increases their bonus damage by +5 after reducing their default bonus damage to 27 from 32)

Not sure about this since its a feudal age change. Shifts the feudal balance a lot but not sure if its necessarily a bad thing.

Another good one. Great for defending against gunpowder uu, monk-mangonel pushes.

Something like this was there in Forgotten empires for a while but got removed. Might need to find out the reason behind removing it. Anyways I still feel like some civs like Turks shouldn’t get it in Black forest given how they are already too powerful with the canon range.

Another great suggestion but I’d switch the order. Siege weapons first then buildings.

Too little too late. Most players would still skip it since Town patrol costs gold.

Eagle scouts get 50 hp. If eagle warriors were to have +5 over light infantry and elites +10 over shock infantry, does it mean all 3 versions have 50 hp? Will be nice to see some stats, properties of this unit. Obviously it cant be exactly like eagles and be available to many other civs.

Another interesting change.

So basically urumi swordsman. Will make a lot of sense for Teutons.

Not a big fan of this though. Reduced damage from siege alone isn’t that much of a value addition.

Like these changes.

But not these.

It had been to reduce the training time at the beginning but I changed my mind since the 21 secs of training time (1 sec less than the Halberdier) is acceptable and fine when people really want to use them. The long long upgrades are the barriers to using them for real even when you have enough resources to upgrade them.


I think it would not, while I even think it would be a little buff. The Paladin have 20 HP less but also cheaper to get upgraded from Cavalier. Basically you can just image that it is to split the current Paladin upgrade into the new one and the Jousting. It could be easier and earlier to get the other parts of the original upgrade, which is useful in the 1v1 game.

The skirmishers dominate the feudal game. Almost every civ train them in almost every feudal game.
Archer civs train them for counterattacking the enemy archers.
Cavalry civs train them for counterattacking the enemy spears.
And all civs train them for fightign the enemy skirmishers as switching to scouts is more difficult in economy and the enemy always have a few spears to go with skirmishers.

I think this is based on a principle of treating all civs fairly. I think the capability of destroy trees is basic so the Turks should of course have it like all of other civs. The Artillery could research longer and cost higher if needed.

The influence of siege weapon conversion is heavier than the influence of building conversion.
People usually research the current Redemption for the siege weapons rather than for the buildings.
For sharing the building conversion to those civs that have no Redemption as they are considered should not be able to convert siege weapons, the Sermon/Preaching for building conversion has to be first.

I don’t mind that the Town Watch → Town Patrol → Town Defense cost only food.
As for the attack provided by Town Defense, I don’t insist on the number.
It can be higher if people think that is suitable, as long as the TCs would not become an offensive tool.

I don’t get the problem.
The current Eagle line is: 50 HP of Eagle Scout → 55 HP of Eagle Warrior → 60 HP of Elite Eagle Warrior.
The Scout Infantry → Light Infantry → Shock Infantry line is just renamed and reskinned from the current Eagle line so they are as same as the above.
The new Eagle Warrior and Elite Eagle Warrior would be unique upgrades for the Aztecs, so the line would be Scout Infantry → Eagle Warrior → Elite Eagle Warrior.

You can think in this way though I think no additional attack makes them different in some degree.

I also stated that they could have attack bonus against siege weapons.
They would be very good against Halberdier + siege weapons, which the Japanese are weak against in my opinion.
And meanwhile I still support that the Japanese gain the Bombard Cannons and change the fake Imperial UT, but this is off-topic.

I don’t think the unique upgrade unit for a generic unit should be also the UU in Castles.
There has to be a new UU to replace the Serjeant in Castles, and the Vavasour is a suitable reference.

The Donjon does not need the spearman that is most used units, and the Donjon already provides a effect of defense. So if you really need spearmen to defend or attack against scouts, please build Barracks. The units in Barracks would be the new (Apprentice) Serjeant and the Spearman.

If the Rams and Siege Towers could be trained in Donjons, that would be useful to youpudding in the closed maps like Arena. Drop a Donjon in front of the walls, train a Siege Tower and Serjeants, send Serjeants inside the walls with the Siege Tower, drop more Donjons inside the walls with the Serjeants. You can save a cost of a siege workshop, which would be really helpful.

This is the only suggestion I like.

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Sad to hear that.

I try to bring the Militia line units, the Battle Elephants, the Hand Cannoneers and the arrow towers more advantages and motivation for use, especially in the late game, try to bring more tools for balance maintenance, and try to slow down some strategies that dominate the current meta.

Maybe there would be more better ideas than mine.

I have updated the original post. The biggest difference is the addition of Windlass and the setting that Dromons must be unlocked through Catapults.

Any comments or new ideas are welcome.

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Ah why??? That would just disadvantage the civs that get Dromons.

The Dromons are the equivalent of Cannon Galleons. Although weaker they still have a long range, and they also have better capability to attack the land units than Cannon Galleons.
Their immediate availability in the Imperial is strong, sometimes I even think too strong.
The Catapults is pretty cheap as I said. Compared with the Chemistry, its cost and research time are much lower. I use it to give the Dromons a similar role of Chemistry to the Cannon Galleons to give their availability a bit of a wait, but it’s still much less restrictive than Chemistry.

Of course this all presupposes that the immediate availability of Dromons is considered potentially too powerful. If people don’t actually think so, Catapults absolutely don’t need to be a requirement for them. My purpose of introducing Catapults is still mainly to allow each civilization to fairly be able to clear a path in forest, and to be the prerequisite for Dromons is only convenient and thematically appropriate.

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I like the idea of split some techs in steps.
What about splitting range and attack for blacksmith techs? And splitting defenses un melee armor and pierce armor?

I’m not sure there’s a need to just get pierce/melee armor and not research melee/pierce armor.
For example I’m not sure how significant it is to just research pierce armor first for Knights and save resources from melee armor until a moment.

It does make sense to split the Fletching line because it affects so much. But I think the separation of range and attack is of little significance, because the increase in range still means increasing the killing efficiency of ranged units. I think it would be better to be split into for units, for ships and for buildings than into range and attack.

But this means a lot of balance adjustments anyway, and whether the devs and we can find enough appropriate terms to name the new technologies.
Obviously, the technology name of Blacksmith is best still a certain kind of equipment, rather than XXX Tactics or XXX Reforms.

This even hurts xbow timing more and favors more knight play in current meta


Actually it would not, if I understand it correctly.

The splitting is to make a tech get spitted into like 2 techs and the total costs and the total research time of the both would usually be equal to the original cost and the original research time, which means you could even have a part of the original effect earlier with a cheaper price.
For example, if the original bodkin arrows take 100 seconds, then you might be able to enjoy the range upgrade first just after the 50th second.
If the part B of the original effect does not require the part A of the original effect as the prerequisite, then you might even be able to research the two parts, such like the range and the attack, at the same time and gain the full original effect with a shorter time.

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But knight player can ignore MA research against xbow then? Cheaper PA upgrade and save resource?

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Don’t get me wrong. I didn’t say splitting all blacksmith techs is a must.
In fact, I don’t see there is a need to split the armor upgrades, and I have expressed my hesitate in the reply above.

Also I think only the Fletching line might probably have a little chance to split, and if it could come true it should be split by the affected objectives instead of into range and attack.

I thought about it more focus in give more diversity along civs. Some civs could have the +3 range but not attack. Today, I think the lacking of blacksmith techs are too much a drawback, but if you split them, some civs could have good melee armor for cavalry, but still be weaker vs range units. Today you have both or none, there is no midpoint to fine tune some civs.

But blacksmith tech also affects towers, castles and ships. Changing the xbow line/skirmisher into different upgrade (like light cav to winged hussar) will be easier.

That’s why I said if the Fletching line split could come true it should be split by the affected objectives instead of into range and attack.
Just let the buildings’, ships’ and archer units’ quality indenpendent may probably be more acceptable. Currently, if a civ is lacking the Bracer it would natually be weak in up to three aspects.

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