It is rare to find any player who says ‘I like water maps’. When asked, they say the only reason they build boats on the water is because ‘they have to in order to win’. They admit they dislike water. So, the majority of players would prefer not playing on water. (A poll would be interesting).
Players who hate the water resign or refuse to build boats on water maps. You could look at the data for water maps to verify this. This results in them always losing ELO on water maps. It also makes them have a less than enjoyable experience on all water maps, because they know they will lose. You can’t FORCE someone to play on water. This makes ELO more inaccurate if 2 maps in the map pool virtually guarantee a loss for those who don’t build boats because they dislike water. Unless both players happen to dislike water and neither builds any boats. (It does happen).
I think it is appropriate, as there is already ‘ban military auto que’ and ‘enable cross play’. I understand that adding too many choices makes it even harder to get a match. Personally, I would rather wait a little bit longer than get stuck with a water map.
There are plenty of cool maps available, but they don’t all make it into 1v1 ranked for a reason. 1v1 ranked is supposed to represent the closest to ‘standard’ play. That is why weird maps aren’t in 1v1 ranked. Water is a different play style, different starting build, everything different, just as it would be on one of the ‘weird’ maps.
It is already extremely challenging to keep the game somewhat balanced. Adding water as an additional thing that must be balanced for 1v1 ranked makes it exponentially harder, while not adding a commensurate increase in player fun.
This is picture of AoE2 map ban system. As you can see, each player can ban 3 maps out of 7 before queueing, leaving at least 1 map that both players somewhat want to play.
Yea, water is not really liked overall across all elo from what i have seen, people dodge it at mostly all levels.
Dunno if theres a way to make it so that both players that have the “only land” and “any map” option actually match. Depending on the ELO you are queing and times, sometimes you wait like 10 min for a queue just to see water map and the opponent bails.
I honestly dunno how quick you can find matches when allowing military auto queue above certain ELO levels (1300 + 1500 + etc) to see if its just “a little longer” or “more likely never matching”. In case anyone knows how the times are to grasp a bit how much subdividing would affect.
The thing about the “weird” water maps you mention is that since AOM is an asymetrical game, some really strong niche pop up in certain civilizations in those maps and lead to some abusive strategies that other gods really cant compete with. Same with some land maps that arent in the competitive cycle which is fun ti see at tournaments when players pick some weird map and pull off this strat but getting it on a repeat on ladder would be another story.
Just learn water maps. It’s part of the game. I have the most fun on those maps. Stop acting like you speak for everybody. You don’t. You do not speak for everybody. You want to conform the game around you and your style only. That’s not fair to others.
Although I see that some players really love water maps. The truth is that the majority of players find playing on water very frustrating. I think there is a huge design flaw in how AoE series handle water maps and they should just straight remove them from ranked map pool until they figure out why exactly they are not as fun as land maps… .
I think the issue is rather straightforward, I just don’t know how exactly one could fix it.
But the issue to me just seems to be the inherent difficulty in juggling water eco and military separately from land eco and military. Especially with limited pop space to commit to both. If you’re on a water map and don’t use fishing boats while other players do, you’re at a disadvantage. If you don’t build ships to maintain control of the water, you’re at a disadvantage. If you overly commit to either land or water exclusively, you’re at a disadvantage. If you don’t switch focus from water to land control at the right time, you’re at a disadvantage.
It’s an extra variable that overly complicates things for most players. That’s why they’re not as fun. Now convert all the boats into ATVs and krakens into the squids from Elden Ring so they can traverse land too…balance would be utterly destroyed, but I imagine water maps would be more ‘fun’.
Another thing I noticed on ‘Peach Blossom’ map, which I know is thankfully scheduled for removal but will still be replaced with another water map, is that the opponent can built a fortress VERY close to your starting TC. In the original and EE editions, castle dropping was disabled, is this no longer the case in retold? Because the reason I quit AOE2 was due to castle drops, and the reason I will very likely not play that game again. AOE3 and the old AOM both did not allow building a castle near the starting TC, for good reason. Is this up to the map designer on a per map basis where to allow fortresses, or are they allowed anywhere now like in AOE2?
Its harder, and that doesnt catter to everyone, specially on lower ELO (which make up most of the playerbase) Having to know a different build order, do the macro better, or just different, hacing to balance water army and land army, having to attack in several fronts (land and water), having, different minor god paths, water myth units, and be at a disadvantage if you refuse to go fishing is some of the things i have seen people list as to why they dont like water. On the other hand, as we go higher the ELO ladder some gods are simply way better at water than others, to the point you mostly see people picking them in games because its that strong (Zeus for example).
But at some point players have to deal with what they dont like. Remove water maps, theres always going to be that other map people dont like. Maybe X map because its for aggresive play and i dont liek being rushed, maybe Y map because iit gives too much advantage to just turtle and go 2 tc, etc etc.
A different solution IMO would be if AOM matched people and instead of picking the map, gave both players or teams 1-3 bans so you can at least avoid that one map you dont like playing.
If you dont wanna play certain maps, leave when you see them, take the loss and hop to another game.
