Adding Aztecs for AOE4

I am not going to deny the technological disadvantage of the Aztecs. Also Otumba is no exception, you have more battles both in America and Africa in which the Europeans prevailed due to their military superiority.

But still, if the Aztecs could have played their cards well… i know that, for example, the Aztecs could NEVER have invaded Europe, their advantage would be in fighting at home, knowing the terrain, kilometers of jungle where they would have the terrain in their favor, etc … the biggest advantage that I would see in the Europeans would be artillery and steel. but I think if they had played their cards right they could have won. (never in equal numbers, always with superiority and in a defensive position).

But one thing I believe is that if the confrontation with the Aztecs had occurred in the high Middle Ages. The European advantage, although existing, would have been less. Perhaps that approach could be given to them, as an early civilization that lags behind in the late.

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I would love to see Aztecs and Japanese in the first DLC

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I would prefer to fill the current map. Byzantine and turks, it is seen that there is a large unthinkable gap for a medieval game.

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For sure and the following ones should focus on Africa.

There’s already so to say “Forgotten Empires” in the base game, so the next logical steps would be “The Conquerors” and “The African Kingdoms”.

You have forgotten Byzantines and Turks, two sides that have to be there. I bet these two come in the first DLC

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I personally wouldn’t put priority on those considering that there are entire continents still missing civs.

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These two civilizations (Byzantine and Turkish) are the center of the current map (which is empty).

The crusades, the commerce… they was the center of the medieval world, literally when the Byzantine empire fell, was a before and after.

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This game is not about representation, devs focusing on adding important and interesting civs from historical point of view, like byzantines and Turks, lack of oceania, africa or america is not a big deal

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It would be nice to have some that actually speak Nahuatl not whatever they are speaking in aoe2 and 3. Going for the asymmetrical route this game proposes to be having a civ with no cavalry would be fun. There are a lot of misconceptions regarding Aztec military in general some of the biggest were that they wore no armor, fought in jungles (they lived in a subtropical environment), that they fought loosely organized, and only went to battle with purpose of capturing not killing.

If their is a concern the units are too weak one could give them strong economic bonuses which would match historically given the diverse array of crops mesoamericans domesticated, their advanced botanical classification system, gardens and their chinampas could be additional farms they can use on water. They could also have some kind of healing bonuses since their physicians had a huge medicinal herbal knowledge Cortes himself admitting the doctors there were better in a letter he wrote to the king. There are also the Aztec markets which were huge, the market of Tlatelolco on some days had as many as 60,000 people. Another area perhaps could be giving them an increased pop cap, given the huge population density in central mexico. This could allow them to overwhelm enemies with numbers too.

As far as lack of siege engines there are alternatives based on historical uses that can be used such as scaling ladders, toxic smoke from yellow oleander (mentioned by historian John Pohl but trying to find his source for this), use of torches and flaming arrows. Aztecs did do stealthy operations though, the pochteca were essentially merchants who posed as spies and at times ambassadors. They picked up intel before engaging in attack. And while I do not know if they used camouflage I know the Purepecha and the Maya did. We have to remember the Aztecs were accustomed to sieges and managed to defend their city for a while. Contrary to popular belief nothing indicates they would have inevitably lost that fight. So another possibility could be giving their villagers abilities to defend from rooftops of their buildings, not just walls. During the siege of Tenochtitlan they had to destroy neighborhood by neighborhood in intense urban clashes where both sides engaged, retreated and repeated for a while.

All in all there are a lot of interesting ways to make them a fun, yet historically accurately represented civ.

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I can imagine Aztecs beating Elizabethan Englishmen at least, through the element of fear alone. Psychology warfare cannot be discounted.

Elizabethan Englishmen had seen horrors of war the Aztecs could not even dream of, like the Mongols and Turks terror tactics in the Holy Land, or soldiers getting their limbs torn out of them by shapnell from cannon fire.
The fear factor, would be on THEIR side, not the Aztecs.

Any Eurasian army would brutalize the Aztecs, specially with similar population counts, like in a game.

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Germanic tribes were skilled smiths and mercenaries. They knew how the Romans fought. Also, their weaponry was on par with the Romans

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what about the battle of otumba?

What about it :thinking:

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wait no, i meant la noche triste, the nigth of sorrows

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The Battle of Otumba is the most classical example of why a Native American force could never beat a full on European Invasion.
Around 20K to 40K Aztecs, lost to 500 Spanish and at most 1000 Tlaxcalans.
The Spanish Cavalry just smashed the whole Aztec army, with a few charges, because both their military technology and theory were much inferior to anything in the Old World.

It was basically similar to what would happen, if we got invaded by an aggressive alien civilization, right now.
The technological level they would need to cross such a vast distance, also means that their military would be billions of years more advanced than ours, not only in their weaponry, but also on how they would even do War.

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Alright, what about it

“The Aztecs could never beat an european force in a battle”

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La Noche Triste was not a battle, it was a bunch of Spanish getting caught with their pants down, deep inside Tenochtitlan, and the Aztecs rioting inside their own city.
The Battle of Otumba was an actual battle, like the one games simulate, and the Aztecs got humiliated.

Like it or not, there is no way a Native American force would ever beat an Eurasian force, with similar numbers, which is exactly the scenario games play out.

The Battle of Otumba happened precisely after La Nocjhe Triste, and when the Spanish besieged Tenochtitlan later on, it became apparent that it was never possible for the Aztecs to defeat them in an actual war.

" Diaz states the Spaniards suffered 860 soldiers killed, which included those from the later Battle of Otumba. The Tlaxcaltecas lost a thousand. The noncombatants attached to the expedition suffered terribly, 72 casualties, including five Spanish women. The few women who survived included La Malinche the interpreter, Doña Luisa, and María Estrada.[2]:302,305–306 The event was named La Noche Triste (“The Night of Sorrows”) on account of the sorrow that Cortés and his surviving followers felt and expressed at the loss of life and treasure incurred in the escape from Tenochtitlan."

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And because of that, they should not be in the game?

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