Advice on goth units

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Hello so iv recently switched to goths cos I like using infantry and I know what to do vs most civs. Archers, make huskarl, cav make halb. But I have a few unit compositions im unsure about.

Last game I played vs a brit and he made 50% champ and 50% arbalester. So I made 50% champs to fight his champs and 50% huskarl for the archers, but should I have just made 100% huskarls, and hope that I can overrun the champs to kill the archers. I won in the end but was thinking maybe pure huskarl would have been better.

Another thing im unsure about is countering champs, should I just make more champs vs champs and hope to bleed his gold or should I techswitch into HC. HC cost 45g each and a champ costs only 13g.

2 Likes
2

If you can keep them alive, I would probably go HC. Champs could work, but HC with an infantry unit in front might be better.

3

I think you made the right call. Goth champions beat Briton champions cost effectively, but Huskarls do not. Obviously you cannot go full champions when he has Archers on the field, so mixing Huskarls was a good play. I don’t recall ever seeing a game where Goth HC was needed, maybe against Jaguar Warriors?

IMO the Briton player made the wrong decision going Arbs vs Goths in Imperial. They deal 1 damage to Elite Huskarls, and Elite Longbows are no better. Basically handed you the win. That is admittedly a tough matchup for Britons, and I’m no expert, but I’d probably try Champions + Heavy Scorpions + Warwolf Trebs. A tough meat shield, and siege units that get better if the enemy has massed infantry. Even that combination is vulnerable if the Goths bring out Bombard Cannons and/or Hussars.

1 Like
4

Then again though, how rarely does anyone ever watch games where Goths were actually played? They aren’t a very popular civ for the most part, at least at higher levels.

5

I recenlty ran a few tests to see the efficiency of the cost diff on champs depending on unique champions (Japanese, Slavs etc.) and came to the conclusion that if the champion is generic, you will trade at a win, if not, it’s a 50/50 chance you beat them with equal res. Be most careful against the Slav and Aztec champs.

Make HC against unique champs.

Also trading huskarls against champs is always a net loss.

6

Don’t be afraid to use hussars, skirms, and especially HC as goths. In most situations in which you need a composition you will end up with huskarl hc anyway.

1 Like
7

Is that when food and gold are valued equally?

8

that’s when food and gold are equal. Usually gold only matters if it’s a long game and 1v1s don’t last that long. If we’re talking gold, unless it’s against Aztecs or Slavs, Goth champions will trade positively if you count gold having a bigger value than food.

9

Goths late game is pretty terrible and you cannot really make anything to counter this, your best best is by making the archers alone and kill them all before champions coming as well or by raiding but it will be very hard. If both archers and infantry are renunite you cannot deal with them correctly in direct combat.

Depends of economy, i would go for hc but since it requires chemistry and a good number of hc it’s quite long to get them so in most cases you will prefer going for champion as well, at least , before hc number is decent enough.

10

You ca make more champs in this situation. The thing is when archers fire at huskarls they do so much less damage that you only need a few huskarls in your mix to keep the archers “busy”. Champs are a more expendable unit in this situation and your first goal must be to break the meatshield of the opponent. Once some of your huskarls have engaged the archers you won.
I would probably make more 60 % champ 40 % huskarl or something in this ballpark, just to make the army a bit more expendable. Britons are hard to push so it’s reasonable to set up for a longer game.

Disagree there. Goths can fight basically everything in a direct battle. Often it’s best to don’t fight the goths directly, actually.

1 Like
11

What do you mean Goth late game is terrible? It’s their early game that’s bad, the late game is the only thing they really have going for them.

6 Likes
12

Goths is good for laming and making early preasure and also in early imperial when you can spam infantry while the opponent can not react properly soon enough, but in real late game, this civ is very weak, too many cases where you are in a really bad spot in late game, as it was said one of the most problematic combo to deal as goths is champ archers it’s costy sure but when afforded (and it’s not that difficult) goths struggle a lot.

I’m very curious how you manage to win this combo with goths as huskarls and champion (pure or mixed) completly get destroyed nor the hc of goths can work also
The best i can find of is by making onager + champion but its very expensive and do not work very well especially vs a britons.

13

How does pure huskarl work against that mix? They do lose 1v1 against champs yes but 50 huskarls beats 40 generic champions. And if they are going 50-50 champs and archers, surely you can non cost effectivly overrun the champions and then kill the archers, which would be cost effective. SImply because they will have less champions and there pinging your huskarls for 1 damage a shot.

14

I have absoluteley no idea what you are talking about. Goths champ + huskarl is an insane comp in this situation. And easy to use aswell. The Huskarls tank the arrowfire, the champs trade cost effictient against the britons champs.
Also what sometimes goes “beneath the radar” or how it is called that goths vs britons often would end up in goth having like 30- 50 more vills working. Even if the goths trade inefficient, they often win by just spamming more units. It’s one of the common themes that make it so hard to deal with this civ once they role. Goths are happy with throwing away army cause they can spam it like crazy.

Britons could try to suprise the goths player with going for light cav instead of champs. If the britons player can manage to keep hisarcher numbers alive goths could have a hard time pusing them. (full wall ´+ onagers recommended) Even though Goths have a not very gold intensive army comp, britons can possibly try to stale the game this way and win with goths running out of it.

I think that’s an unnecessary risk. As I said, at first you want the huskarls only to tank the arrowfire. Huskarls are actually not the best melee fighters so you want to avoid them fighting the opponent melee units. As you only need a reasonable amount of huskarls in your mix to tank the arrowfire you have pop space for any other kind of unit to deal with the melee threats posed.
I think it’s a bad idea to not use champs (or halbs) against the melee units with goths. Goths have such an easy to use unit comp, you don’t lose anything by

15

I am under the impression that Briton Skirmishers, and Light Cavalry are being ignored.

16

The main problem here is that Goth infantry isn’t fully upgraded, as they’re missing the last armor upgrade (Plate Mail Armor), which means Britons can just go full champions and that alone would wreck Goths if they’re only going for infantry, as Britons champs are fully upgraded. That being said, HC + Rams would probably be a good option here, as the HC would deal amazingly against the Champions, and the rams would draw archer/skirmisher fire. Of course, some micro would be needed. Alternatively, Heavy Scorpions + Halbs to protect from cavalry would probably have done the trick.

17

Briton champs indeed kill goth champs in 1 less hit, but this in no way compensates for goths having more units on the field at all times, a 35% decrease in the cost, and a faster production.

I don’t see on what map, matchup, skill level, or combination of those, regular fully upgraded champions will beat goth champions cost effectively.

18

I just want to share a thought, faster production building means that you have to have better eco to sustain production units. It gives you the power spike that you need in the short term but in the long term it could be a problem because you drain your resources faster that you are gather them. Any raid or any idle hurts Goths production badly

19

huskarls x hand canons (about a group of 20-30 hand canons will do) and don’t fight directly with the champions, aim for the archers with the huskarls but attack the champions when they attempt to attack the hand canons and retreat the huskarls as soon as the enemy attempts to attack the huskarls with the champs and rinse/repeat to keep them harassed and keep a constant threat on the archers with the huskarls while taking care to micro the hand canons to stay out of range of the archers and make maximum damage against the champions. You are well and able to do exactly this vs teuton infantry - heal your huskarls with herbal meds, build a town center or two and/or a castle on the front lines for the hand canons to retreat into as well as for consistent healing for your huskarls which really should mainly be focusing on their forte, harassing archers and deleting buildings and luring opponents into unfavorable fights by the temptation of being weak in melee vs melee and lead the opponent into a harsh reality check with hand canons, well positioned and fully garrisoned castles with full attack upgrades, etc. Use bombard canons as an additional harassment device to foot archers.

My advice, don’t flood; use your units to the best of your ability, heal often and your discounts will be favorable for the long game, while ensuring to get those relics and keep your death ratio as low as possible and fight smartly.

The huskarls are anti archer Teutonic Knights; treat them with the respect they deserve and heal them often. Avoid melee fights like tk’s avoid archers, but as tk’s sometimes find the correct times to attack archers so will huskarls in melee fights.

Use bombard canons and skirms vs pesky cav archer groups or horseback ranged units in general and keep them at bay with the huskarls to help keep them from sniping the bombard canons, and tho you don’t have siege engineers, feel free to add in 2 onagers as insurance to prevent dive bombing without cost.

For taking on paladins; use pikes and defensive structure to the best of your ability and keep your eco well defended to the point you don’t need your military there. You can’t stone wall, but you have fully upgraded building armor and attack - consider outposts and other buildings as walls if needed, and be ready for anything, and even if it’s weak, palisading your castles can save it from destruction; use multiple layers if you have to.

20211210121157_1
20211210121157_11920Ă—1080 539 KB

20211210121146_1
20211210121146_11920Ă—1080 520 KB

I personally use these types of layouts, but minus 3 exterior farming directions; however 5 castles is well and doable, and you are well and able to make-do with only one. The inner castle’s double layer farming square is enough for 48 farms, and adding in an additional castle+ 2 tcs allows for 70 or 72 total or a little more. It also allows for a safe place to keep your relics in a preferred side of the 4 gated areas in the center castle’s shadow.

Being the first to buy 1500 stone from the market as well as gaining exterior stone areas helps to keep enemy stone structures down and more costly for them in the long run to replace and repair, I suggest also being the first to sell wood and food at the most opportune times to replace gold lost from buying stone or rather to go towards buying the stone later.