Completely inaccurate, Javelins are better than musketeers overall for a greater speed advantage, maybe things play different at causal level, but at competitive side it’s quite clear javelins outperfom musketeers.
They’re considerably more expensive so why shouldn’t they?
so thats why ethiopia has 40% w/r, broken units
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musketeers are counters to dragoons, they counter all cav and soft counter melee inf.
skrmishers only soft counters dragoons and hard counters heavy infantry.
unless you get into some weird scenario where the dragoon either has a bonus vs HI or super range then musketeers will do just as well vs dragoons as skirmishers.
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they beat them by cost at range, for the same price you can get 2 musketeers which will have more hp and a bit more than 2 times the damage.
units arent just counters because a number says they are, except for range musketeers and skirmishers are about the same vs dragoons.
Shouldn’t be directly compared to faster units with a better animation. Compare it to Bow Riders or ERKs and they’re not particularly out of line. Ethiopia usually won’t tech into Javs anyway since they need to upgrade their inf and Hausa lacks good upgrades for them (can’t even get caracole until age 5).
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That’s the whole competitive point. Javelins are out of unit counter system right now which makes all those balance concerns
By this logic, so are ryuters. They are essentially the same unit as javelin rider, and they can get better range as well.
Javelins are fine. Any nerfs to them would require massive compensatory buffs to Ethiopia and Hausa. Let’s stop overnerfing unconventional units, we don’t need another inca at the bottom of trash tier list.
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i think we need a full hausa gameplay from GG.Revnak so that we can understand what the “competitive level” is, apparently we are out of line cuz in competitve level javs are extremely broken and its a balance concern
Maybe a stream from someone who play hausa on competitve level could help us to understand how javs are extremely broken
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I would rather hausa and ethiopia start with a griot/abun
Much more interesting, equal power I would say
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They can be obnoxious when massed. But the same applies to ryuters, ERK and other 1 pop ranged fast moving units. However, they do have counters. Both early and late game.
they don’t, africa javelin riders are combined with one of the best support units behind, either gascenya skirms with 1 pop cannoneers or sudanese units combined with african hand cav or shotel warriors, they all are extremely cheap and breaks the unit counter system.
I would trade only 10% armor vs range for 10% resistance vs melee.
I have to do the math, to see if the standard European musketeer can take it down, but I think it would be a good change, it would still destroy heavy cavalry and artillery, and would have a worse trade vs heavy ranged infantry and dragons in general.
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I don’t think this is a constructive way of discussing at all, not like one needs to play it to prove it has design flaws while it’s complete clear based on the image I posted that javelin riders are extremely countering musketeers which is against the overall unit counter system not one single competitive player would claim the opposite of 1 pop goons being able to counter musketeers where it’s also not possible to make any hand units against african civilizations.
Ruyters do just as well when massed, so do ERK. Nerf those then come back to the javelin rider. It makes no sense ignoring other units that do the same or better and just focusing on the africans which are already underwhelming civs with glaring weaknesses.
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People can test any unit against any other unit(s) in the scenario editor, it is hardly a matter of opinion whether one unit beats other units or not when you can just test it 10 times in the scenario editor.
You can’t test micro though.
Melee infantry beat ranged cavalry if you don’t micro, they probably even beat rifle infantry.
Yes, melee inf mops almost every unit in the game if they get close. That includes cannons in sufficient numbers.
Probably not Pikeman type ones though since they rely on very strong modifiers against cavalry.
But especially the ones with AoE like Doubles or Samurai are good against almost anything if they get close enough.
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I think it’s important to look at the stats of the units, ruyters are much worse version of javelin riders as you can see in the image. Eagle runners are not comparable to dragoons as 3x bonus apply against them so you can counter easier and eagle have slower speed.