Making it personal and keeping personal posts don’t bring anything constructive to the discussion, Please stop attacking. I just stated the stats of the units and all competitive players agree with javelins having uncomparable stats to any other 1 pop goon type proven by the stats. That’s where I leave it at.
The differences in stats are way too small to show an issue. Sure, you may be able to spot OP units by looking at stats, but the javelin rider isn’t that much of an outlier at the moment (they were crazy OP on release day though).
Ruyters get better upgrade cards, while javelins barely get something that could be called an equivalent on Hausa. Comparing baseline stats is almost of zero value.
Let’s not even get on the topic of Ryuters having control and being easier to mass since they cost mostly gold that dutch have plenty.
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But the do get an arsenal with Ports. Can get it age 2 if they want
fixed. thanks. 20 characters
difference is huge imo, it’s cheaper than zamburak for much more attack and health, javelins also have good upgrades, you can send all upgrades and still not be any close to javelins as any 1 pop goon. I see no way of ruyters ever having close fight with javelins
It’s a little bit of a funny comparison, javs have less range armour than Zam’s and less speed. So kiting with zam’s waiting for the reload and not letting the javs get there second shot in would negate there quicker rate of fire.
IMO Javs start of weaker but with techs and cards get to a stronger place but it’s a moot point with zam’s since you should also be using elephant archers in your goon comp.
0.1 less armor for 33% more attack and 50% more health is not even comparable imo. speed advantage is surely good but it’s not possible to have a scenario where zamburaks hit and run javelin riders without getting hit, so it doesn’t go bad. I agree african civilizations age up very late compared to other civilizations, but it shouldn’t be covered with unit counter system breaking units. I don’t mean africa getting weaker, but more balanced with rewarding unit counter system.
Zambs are in a weird place. But the reason they are so is because india has a full roaster of units in age 2. One of the reasons it has always been a top tier civ in supremacy.
I don’t see why you’d want ruyters to be fighting javelins. You normally want to use the skirmishers to do that. The point of comparison with ruyters ia that they fill the same role. Ruyters can be used in much the same fashion as javelins and they perform better due to speed, mass, better animations and tighter formation.
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because they are same unit type, but javelin has more bonus against cav with upgrades and overall more stats while african civs already having other strong units combined. Making skirm against africa is a lose option for competitive level right now since their composition is not counterable by it. Javelins combined with other african cav and strong merc shipments behind is just not possible to hold by having skirm goon. It is not possible to make any hand cav against africa either
Ok so maybe i think it’s better to have a recording or something. Sounds like the problem you describe is more complex than just the javelin. In the end you may be right and we can come up with some compensatory buffs.
but ethiopian javelins are really broken when the people use shewa cav card, literaly they become in 1 pop dragon.
yeah, that could work, 20% of RR after shewa cav is really high, literally with all the upgrades and cards they become in 1 pop dragoon but cheaper, literally, they can melt most of the skirms.
Here’s an idea. How about nerfing 20 hp off javelins but give 40 to runner infantry of Ethiopia?
Javelin Riders already got their health nerfed, and giving Shotels more health just conflicts with the role of Oromos.
They should start with just nerfing Javelin Rider range. That would let musks and other light cav always get the first shot off and beat them more consistently.
For buffing Shotels I’d alter their attack from 13 damage with 1.2 RoF to 12 damage and 1 RoF. And I’d also make the two cards that buff Gascenya affect Shotels. That would give them +1.17 dps as default, and an extra +15% attack and health from cards.
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Before even considering any nerfs which are totally unnecessary I’d take into account ethiopias below average win rate at all levels(far below hausa despite both having javelin riders) and buff them. The mortar has received too many nerfs at age 3 level and stopping 2 falcs remains an issue. The tech at the palace to train artillery should be removed and a 20% cost reduction to all artillery should be made taking into account that influence is similar to wood in cost and artillery cost mostly coin it should not be 500 influence instead of 400 coin/100 wood, 400 influence is much more reasonable for training falcs/culvs.
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I don’t think these things need to be mutually exclusive. If the things that are overpowered are not addressed then other things get incorrectly overnerfed (such as the Sebastopol Mortar). Ethiopia needs buffs across the board, but there are still a few elements of their design that could use some slight nerfs. Getting free shadow teching on all their non-standard units is another element of the African civs I think could be axed.
Sure there are elements in each civ that are stronger or weaker but when considering a civ with a below average win rate that’s performing poorly I just thing nerfs should be the last thing on the list, first get them closer to a 50% win rate then other things could be taken into consideration. Nerfing now would just result in them having a lower win rate and even lower pick rate then they already have.
Javelin riders are annoying to fight are they OP I don’t think so but they certainly don’t need any buffs either. Every Ethiopian player I have fought has lost with mass javelin riders but since they are a one pop dragoon a lot can be massed and you can’t just blast them with anything like massed infantry. And I am talking about fighting javelin riders late game in mass like in treaty games
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They definitely should not just be getting nerfed in isolation, but it should still be considered in conjunction with a bunch of other buffs.
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