"Age of Empires" Needs THE EMPIRE: Awe-Inspiring Architecture Transformation & Civ Concept for the Turks/ Ottoman Empire (with BEASTLY Mega Bombards) - NEW! Updated Nov 19th

[Vinifrss]

We may disagree about some details but I have immense respect for your knowledge and contribution here. Pity you didn’t indulge my curiosity on where you’re from.

@timtsilo

Seljuk turkish architecture is overwhelmingly medieval. And early ottomans were building in a really similar way than anatolian seljuks. As the Green Mosque in İznik

Amazing that you know the Green Mosque in Iznik! This city is incredible, it invented my favorite ceramic/porcelain design anywhere (I also like Kutahya style) and it’s the birthplace of Christianism as a structured religion.

@timtsilo

Most of architectures you posted are inseparable from the fall of the Byzantines. These architectures emerged from their study of Byzantine architecture and the desire to surpass it. What they will achieve in the Renaissance / Early modern period. Even Renaissance Italians architects said than ottomans architects were some of the best of their epoch

That’s what makes Anatolia a cradle of Civilization, a melting pot of knowledge, a seat of Empires. The Byzantines were the most advanced civ for much of the early AoE4 centuries, it’s only natural to learn from the best technique. In the late period, the Ottoman Empire (and Italy) was the architecture superpower of the world, no questions. No need for a PhD, one just needs to visit Istanbul, Edirne, etc. Mimar Sinan was the greatest architect in the world.

@timtsilo

Topkapi Palace started in 1465, but it was expanded over centuries, and most of the greatest changes were made under Suliman in the 16th century

Yes definitely, but the 1500s and Suleiman the Magnificent are still very much inside AoE4 timeframe… Topkapi was by far the grandest palace in the world, even more than Versailles which came centuries later! How can Age of Empires not have the grandest palace of the greatest Empire?

@timtsilo

Here, you are mismatching the prestige of the today touristic site, without the context of medieval period. It was initially a bedesten, was called Great Bazaar way later, still a great bedesten, but nothing “gigantic” or “legendary”. It was again expanded over centuries, with a second bedesten added in this complex by Soliman again.

Yes again, but that expansion all happened very much within AoE4 time. The simple fact is the Grand Bazaar is by far the largest and oldest still-operating mega mall on Earth, even if Persia had even older ones. If anything ever deserved “legendary” and “gigantic”, this would be it.

@timtsilo

I mean Ottomans shined in AoE 3, the trope covered by the game is perfect for them.
In AoE 4, Seljuks fit perfectly with Age III

I agree Seljuks are very important and should be fully represented in AoE4 yes, but we don’t agree about everything. The years 1350-1650 are the decisive period in Age of Empires 4 (ir goes further than AoE2), and during this period, the Ottoman Empire was the #1 foremost power in the world overall, with absurdly high military win rate and Earth-shaking innovations. Even if that image of fabulous wealth, luxury and splendor only came after ~1500. Ages in AoE game are never equal fractions of linear time. Seljuks fit better in late Age 2 to early Age 3, Ottomans in late Age 3 and all of Age 4. That’s why the big in-game transition from nomadic civ to settled civ should be from Age 2 to Age 3 in my view. Sipahis come in Age 2-3, Janissaries come in late Age 3, Great Bombards in Age 4.

@timtsilo

Let’s shine some seljuk stuffs in age 3, like the Çifte Minareli Medrese of Erzurum, or a Nizamiyeh of Nizam al-Mulk

These are amazing authentic Seljuk architecture for Ages 2 and 3 yes. Thank you so much for this contribution man.

@timtsilo

Seljuks were one of the most important player of the Crusade, with emblematic character like Alp Arslan. And are always skipped in these games … which is a shame : there would be no Ottoman Empire, if there was no Seljuk empire

Totally agreed! Alp Arslan is one of the greatest all-time badasses. Posting some of his unforgettable quotes below…

[Winter2643]

@Vinifrss

elite brutal Viking mercenaries, the Varangian Guard,

Tbh, I’m fine if they don’t add a Scandanavian faction if the Turks get the Varangian Guard. Vikings are already cool enough, but Viking mercenaries are on another level.

If my very limited knowledge on Constantinople and pre-WW1 Ottomans is correct, didn’t the Byzantine emperor get raided and subsequently hired the raiders? Or it was a sultan, idk. It was a tale I heard last Midsummer by a Seer but I don’t remember the details.

Now that I’m on the topic of Constantinople, I should make a Siege of Constantinople campaign when the scenario editor becomes a thing, I always liked doing that. Abbasid units will have to do for now.

[Vinifrss]

@Winter2643

Tbh, I’m fine if they don’t add a Scandanavian faction if the Turks get the Varangian Guard

Oh actually it’s the Byzantines, but I’m sure the Vikings would fight for whoever payed the most in gold. Apparently they made a lot, and enjoyed life to the fullest, but against “Chuck Norris” Alp Arslan, they met their end.

@Winter2643

If my very limited knowledge on Constantinople and pre-WW1 Ottomans is correct, didn’t the Byzantine emperor get raided and subsequently hired the raiders?

That’s what I heard, the Byz got hacked and hired the hackers with high pay. Anyways AoE4 Byzantines should get their Viking battalions for sure among other mercenaries.

@Winter2643

Now that I’m on the topic of Constantinople, I should make a Siege of Constantinople campaign when the scenario editor becomes a thing, I always liked doing that. Abbasid units will have to do for now

Camel mounted is a fine way to enter a conquered city. “This is how I roll baby”. Bring the Gatling Camel along.

[Vinifrss]

@timtsilo

Let’s shine some seljuk stuffs in age 2-3, like the Çifte Minareli Medrese of Erzurum, or a Nizamiyeh of Nizam al-Mulk

I feel like this guy is definitely worth an AoE 4 Landmark:

I’d appreciate if you could share more info on the man himself and the Landmark dedicated to him? Please keep contributing your knowledge bro.
.

@timtsilo

Seljuks were one of the most important player of the Crusade, with emblematic character like Alp Arslan

Further reading for those who don’t know the father of all Badass…

Alp Arslan — Badass of the Week

.

ALP ARSLAN QUOTES: A LEGENDARY BADASS IN HISTORY

Seljuk sultan Alp Arslan (“Brave Lion” in Turkish) fought a huge Byzantine army which had the famous elite brutal Viking mercenaries, the Varangian Guard, at the Battle of Manzikert 1071, one of the most decisive, pivotal and consequential in all medieval history, the battle that caused the Crusades.

Soldier: “My sultan! The enemy army is approaching!!”
Alp Arslan: “Then we are also approaching them.”
Soldier: “But my sultan, it looks like 100,000 men!”
Alp Arslan: “I wonder where we’ll bury that many bodies.”

(after Byzantine army -with elite Vikings- totally destroyed by Alp Arslan’s Turkish army, Byz emperor captured and brought to Alp Arslan’s tent…)

Alp Arslan: “What would you do if I were brought before you as a prisoner?”
Romanos: “Perhaps I’d dismember you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople.”
Alp Arslan: “My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free.”

[timtsilo]

@Vinifrss

I’d appreciate if you could share more info on the man himself and the Landmark dedicated to him? Please keep contributing your knowledge bro.

Well, the Nizamiyyah is a sort of madrasa. In medieval times, we could simply consider it as an university, some even think than they are the forerunners and models of University in Europe.
And the name of this institution was given by Nizam al-mulk himself, which created the first one in Bagdad.

This guy worked for Alp Arslan, later felt into disfavor, he was killed by the Assassins of Hasan Sabbah. Anyway Seljuks widespreaded these important medieval institutions (which were schools complex and universities, learning archeology, philosophy, ethnography, geography, mathematics, chimics, geometry, etc etc) in the empire, and we can find a continuity of this in all the area.

There are probably other good choices for landmarks. But I liked this one, I saw sometimes it in some Civilizations (games) mods

For a specific reference which could serve as visual or picture for the landmark, I don’t know what would be the best choice tbh. In same time, we don’t really know how looks the House of Wisdom of Abbasids but it didn’t stop the dev to design one.

For Ottomans in age IV, Topkapi palace would be a really stylish landmark. But maybe dev will choose some gunpowder arsenal ??? to focus on the gamey side of some landmarks which produce units like HRE one in Age 3 ?
And one of the ottomans mosque you posted could be their wonder ?

[Vinifrss]

@timtsilo

Well, the Nizamiyyah is a sort of madrasa. In medieval times, we could simply consider it as an university, some even think than they are the forerunners and models of University in Europe

Yeah I think these authentic Seljuk landmarks would be amazing for Age 2… remember AoE 4 landmarks do not follow any strict chronological order at all. Seljuk Empire deserves representation for sure.

@timtsilo

For Ottomans in age IV, Topkapi palace would be a really stylish landmark

Absolutely yes man! No questions asked. Though its real gigantic size would never fit AoE tiles.

@timtsilo

But maybe dev will choose some gunpowder arsenal ??? to focus on the gamey side of some landmarks which produce units like HRE one in Age 3 ?

The Tophane, the world’s largest cannon and Mega Bombard foundry and Arsenal, can never be overlooked within the AoE 4 landmarks system… producing Great Bombards in the game. That’s why Topkapi should be Age 3… no linear chronological order or equal time fractions for Ages.

@timtsilo

And one of the ottomans mosque you posted could be their wonder ?

Yes I’d say the humankind masterpiece gigantic Blue Mosque with 6 minarets should be the Ottoman Empire’s Wonder. Even though the world-beating awe is actually inside the colossal building. Pics are above indeed, near the end.

[timtsilo]

@Vinifrss

The Tophane, the world’s largest cannon and Mega Bombard foundry and Arsenal, can never be overlooked within the AoE 4 landmarks system… producing Great Bombards in the game. That’s why Topkapi should be Age 3… no linear chronological order or equal time fractions for Ages.

I mean, why not… I can accept it. It looks not as odd as the landsknecht being produced in a feudal structure

@Vinifrss

Yes I’d say the humankind masterpiece gigantic Blue Mosque with 6 minarets should be the Ottoman Empire’s Wonder. Even though the world-beating awe is actually inside the colossal building. Pics are above indeed, near the end.

seems perfect . It was used for AoE II too, even if the model was a bit … modest

[Vinifrss]

@timtsilo

It looks not as odd as the landsknecht being produced in a feudal structure

But how to you fit Topkapi, the world’s largest palace into a AoE 5 x 5 tiles?

@timtsilo

seems perfect . It was used for AoE II too, even if the model was a bit … modest

“Modest” huh… Honestly, AoE 2 Turkish Wonder model was appaling. I don’t even know if it was meant to be Blue Mosque or Selimiye or what.

Interestingly enough, the icon for “Wonder” of all 40 civs in AoE 2 is still the Turkish Wonder (icon below). Sir Petersen himself decided. I wonder what he’d say about AoE4’s controversial launch civ roster…

[MinusKollege]

Again, really? Didn’t you tell us in the other thread that you are done with the turk worshipping? Now the wonder-icon again… lul

[Vinifrss]

Our Suggestion for Wonder of the Ottoman Empire/Turks civ - The BLUE MOSQUE

Built in 1609 (AoE 4 goes up to ~1650) by Sultan Ahmed I with funds from the imperial treasury after a bloody and costly 15-year war with powerhouse Persia while fighting most of Europe at the same time, this enormous and colossal architectual masterpiece of humankind has 20,000 priceless blue-themed Iznik porcelain tiles inside (Iznik is the largest and oldest porcelain manufacturing and design center outside of China).

The Blue Mosque is in the Eternal City Istanbul and is one of the most visited tourist sites in the world today.

It has been suggested in this forum before, that the Byzantines and the Ottoman Empire / Turks civs should have Wonder bonuses as a way of (finally!!) bringing the Wonder victory condition back to life in Age of Empires game, because of their world-beating astonishing architecture masterpieces.

By the time the colossal Blue Mosque was built, the Ottoman Empire had CRUSHED and conquered all of historically-critical Southeast Europe (while Europe was easily colonizing and defeating the rest of the world), had OBLITERATED huge European armies of up to 20 European civs all together in mega battles (Mongols only defeated Hungary alone), had DEMOLISHED the legendary fortresses of Constantinople, Rhodes, Cyprus, Szigetvar etc with monster Great Bombards, had SMASHED strong Mamluk Egypt which utterly DESTROYED Mongol armies twice earlier, had invented the matchlock musket which REVOLUTIONIZED history forever and was fighting large wars with world powerhouses in 3 continents simultaneously.

The Ottoman Empire was the world’s zenith superpower in the decisive centuries of Age of Empires 4.

[Fyrapan90]

Look yet another ottoman/turks topic or sentences made by the same person on how superior they are vs any other country/empire ever excited! No disrespect to you but its a bit funny how much you write about them as if they are the greatest empire in all of history which is simply not true

[MinusKollege]

Maybe he tries to burn down the forum servers by uploading all the stock photos of turkey he can find

[Vinifrss]

@Fyrapan90 Your Topic about the Byzantine Empire was superb. I very much appreciated it, I agree they should mostly speak Greek, and I intend to revisit soon my friend. Actually I first suggested the Wonder bonus there, in your Topic. Imagine how this would transform the basic strategic thinking of the game, if the third victory condition finally came back to life! It changes the whole strategy!

Btw the Byzantines dominated many centuries early in the timeframe. They were the most advanced civ in the West by far! I have immense respect for the Byzantines too. In the last paragraph above, I was just trying to summarize a few achievements of the Ottoman Empire since the Wonder symbolizes exactly this - the culmination of power, a consummate Empire.

Byzantines x Ottoman Empire is the real Clash of Superpowers DLC. No one else can be.

If I made any mistake in any sentence, or if any is not true, please point out the sentence. I promise I will humbly delete the sentence immediately my friend

[Fyrapan90]

At the end of the day we are here because we love playing games and love history so it’s only understandable that we have passion for certain country’s history especially if we come from said country as well!

I appreciate your passion and I hope that we both get our civilization into the game in the future! My previous comment was only pointing out that it was funny how many times I’ve seen you posting about the turks (not in a bad way) that’s all

Perhaps one day we can meet each other in the game in a proper byzantine vs ottomans match up haha

[Vinifrss]

@Fyrapan90

especially if we come from said country as well

Hey, let me guess, are you Greek, or another nation in the Byzantine Empire? I’m not a Turk, just a fan of history.

@Fyrapan90

Perhaps one day we can meet each other in the game in a proper byzantine vs ottomans match up haha

If AoE 4 has any self-respect, basic respect to History and willingness to fix the civ roster… we will be meeting in battle, brother

[Fyrapan90]

Yes I’m greek myself where are you from? Let’s hope that they add it in the future.

[Vinifrss]

@Fyrapan90

Yes I’m greek myself where are you from?

Cool man, I’ve been to Greece once, and Turkey many times, buying a home there. These 2 are the most beautiful+historical countries in the world imo, best travel destinations

I’m from Brazil (see flags in text?) , My main home is very near the Christ Redeemer statue, do you know it?

As a curiosity, mom’s family heritage is Polish Christian, dad’s family heritage was mainly Jewish in Lisbon, Portugal, they fled the Inquisition genocide against non-Catholics in Spain and Portugal and their lives were saved by the Ottoman Empire, they lived near Izmir (in today’s Turkey) for ~300 years until the European alliance invaded the dying Empire at the end of World War I and destroyed our old town, then my then-kid grandpa came to South America.

@Fyrapan90

Let’s hope that they add it in the future

I’m more blunt about it.

I’ll only buy AoE 4 (for some friends as well ha) when they add both Byzantines and the Ottoman Empire. Such is my respect and consideration for these absolute must-have empires.

PS. I’ll add big design proposals related to Byzantines and Ottoman Empire architecture to this Topic soon, a revolution in Age of Empires 4 gameplay for these DLC civs.

[Vinifrss]

@timtsilo I want to combine your deep knowledge a bit here, what could be the Age 1 Landmarks in your opinion? Uber-Badass Alp Arslan’s mausoleum would be cool right?

@TyrannoNinja Can you contribute some cool Mali architecture here? I’m quite interested in that, would be great contribution to Age of Empires as architecture is key.

[TyrannoNinja]

@Vinifrss

Can you contribute some cool Mali architecture here? I’m quite interested in that.

I think Dogon architecture would be a good model for Malian buildings in the first two ages of the game.

And then in later periods structures start looking more like the classic Sudano-Sahelian style (as exemplified by that in Djenne and Timbuktu).

[Vinifrss]

@TyrannoNinja This is awesome one-and-only architecture style bro, quite exotic, I believe Mali should be included in AoE 4, with “Elon Musk” Mansa Musa and musicians inspiring villagers. Great material, share more if you have! Are you African?