I know the DM community isn’t as large as the Standard community, but we have a decent chunk of players and Standard players also cross play in DM to train for their late game. I wanted to start a discussion on potential DM only balance changes. All input is valid and suggestions should be treated with respect. I know the devs read through these forums, so maybe we can initiate some change via that mechanism. I will bullet point suggestions if I’m seeing majority support in the discussion.
For those unaware of what the Deathmatch game mode is. It’s a gamemode that has high starting resources and a completely different strategy than the Standard gameplay. It’s definitely faster if you will, but that does not make it any less of a strategic gamemode than Standard. Minor god choices, economy ratio, when you cast godpowers, timings, and unit composition all greatly effect the outcome of the game. Retold has the option to search for both Standard and DM ranked matches with a full leaderboard.
We have a Discord channel for Deathmatch gamers and i will include the invite link below. There are sections in the discord for just about everything you can imagine, including Standard gameplay as well, as alot of players crossplay between the two types of the game.
Anyone is welcomed to use this invite link and check out the community and members.
Invite Link
(https://) DM Discord Server
Balance Suggestions:
All Civs:
Greek Civs:
Norse Civs:
Egyptian Civs:
Atlantean Civs:
2 Likes
They already started making DM balance. the initial ressources for one.
If you mean to make Pantheon Specific changes on DM, Maybe they will, but most likely very late in the game’s life.
The reason is that balance changes is a hard labor for devs. The devs did an amazing job with the game, but we can clearly see it was not ready to be out with all the pathing issue and bugs the game has.
Whats more, microsoft pushed for the DLC way too quick and now these same devs not only have the big list of bug to fix, QOL changes to add; but also new balance changes to make with the old and the new chinese pantheon. Its wayy tooooo much.
DM mode is just for fun. The same as lightning, tiny and scenario games. And given the fact the balance of the game is not meant for DM or LG game types, there will always be a god that is just stronger than the others no matter what the devs do.
Thanks for making the thread. Here is my unhinged list of changes I’d like to see from a DM perspective. This is the kind of stuff I’d put in a DM balance mod, but wouldn’t necessarily expect in the standard mode. The changes marked with italic font are NOT reasonable for standard in my opinion and should be only considered if the team is willing to separately tweak DM.
General:
- Ballistics nerf. Archers to consistently hit moving infantry, but not moving cavalry. Buildings unchanged.
- Tower dmg buff.
- Wall build speed buff.
- Initial resources reduced 20k->18k, 200->150 favor.
- Relics not affecting DM removed (in DM only).
Greek:
- Bolt, Sentinel and Lure recast cheaper.
- Lure to spawn many more chickens.
- Pestilence radius nerf.
- Restoration recast cheaper.
- Polyphemus dmg buff.
- Bellerophon HP nerf.
Egyptians:
- Ra gains a speed boost for Migdol units.
- Set to get the combat animals on age advance.
- Set monument discount effect buff.
- Isis monument radius and healing buff.
- Eclipse recast cheaper.
- Sphinx ability buff.
- Snakes controllable, buff vs vills.
- Chariot HP buff.
- Siege tower crush armor buff.
- Mercenaries to have a lifespan, not losing HP over time.
- Roc stat nerfs, cost increase, but hot pickups returned.
- Locust swarm damage increase, recast cheaper.
- Medjay upgrade brought back.
- Sun-dried mud brick building speed effect nerf.
- Citadel recast cheaper.
- Phoenix stat and repsawn buff.
- Valley of the Kings redesign (no 2 for 1 value).
- Tornado crush damage buff.
Norse:
- Loki build speed bonus to only affect heroes.
- Spy recast cheaper.
- Healing spring recast cheaper.
- Gullinbursti recast cheaper.
- Servants of glory speed effect buff.
- Tempest recast cheaper.
- Feasts of renown heal effect buff.
- Thurisaz rune regen rate buff.
- Burning pitch effect reduction on throwing axemen.
- Nidhogg HP buff, and can be healed.
- Granite Blood effect nerf.
- Fafnir gold donation reduced.
Atlantean:
- Spider lair buff (more of them).
- Automaton speed buff.
- Carnivora now healable.
- Valor to gain free charges.
- Traitor recast cheaper.
- Chaos recast cost increase.
- Rheia’s Gift: periodic free behemoths.
- Implode damage & pull speed buff.
- Argus acid buff (dmg/AoE).
- Tartarian gate buff (recast cost, spawn stats).
- Vortex to lose free recasts.
Reasoning:
- Ballistics disincentivizes micro as compared to the original game, making archer blobs excessively powerful and hard to counter with fast units.
- Defenses are somewhat nerfed in general in Retold, but also the armies are significantly larger, while myth units and siege are buffed. The game rewards aggression too much. Balance needs to enable defensive play styles as well.
- The increase in DM’s starting resources is warranted given the larger population cap, but now that age ups don’t cost resources, the latest increase is too much, leading to a too large “spam allowance”.
- Several god powers are incorrectly costed in relation to their power level.
- Pestilence breaks the early game in DM, we cannot have it target this many buildings.
- Polyphemus has no divine damage, making him weaker against myth units than the other age 4 heroes.
- Ra used to be defined by raiding and arrow-dodging chariots in the original game. The removal of this has been greatly damaging.
- Most of Set’s free animal spawns are not useful in combat, and simply waste population space in DM.
- Serpents have no role in DM, but if they can catch villagers together with Anubites, that’s a powerful early game tool.
- Isis monuments are underwhelming unless empowered. She’s the worst DM god, making this buff a no-brainer.
- Siege towers are too vulnerable due to their low HP, and get too easily destroyed by other siege.
- Mercenaries are nearly unusable, essentially only functioning against rams or similar.
- Sobek is the worst minor god in the game, his entire kit was unreasonably nerfed. The serpent spawning upgrade is weird and not relevant for DM. Would rather see Medjay return.
- Phoenix should be a functional myth unit, in exchange for a weaker Valley of the Kings tech.
- Tornado can’t reliably damage TCs enough.
- Loki is one of the strongest DM gods, capturing the map too easily, and spamming too many giants too easily.
- TA with burning pitch are better against buildings than against infantry. Makes no sense.
- Nidhogg is irrelevant, usually dies within seconds.
- Leto is an irrelevant minor god, very weak kit.
- Carnivora can’t reliably slow down TCs anymore, so perhaps we can turn it into a solid defensive tool.
- Rheia’s Gift needs some effect that’s relevant for DM.
- Argus description claims it can instantly kill most enemies. That’s very false, and its AoE is tiny.
- Tartarian Gate is the worst mythic age god power. The building is weak, the spawns are weak, it’s overpriced for recasting, and the spawns don’t work well with their AI.
- Vortex is easily the best value mythic age god power, able to deliver 8 uses for the cost of others having 2 uses (eg earthquake). The Helios kit is otherwise great for DM as well, making it a too dominant pick.